Swedish RB 12.7x44 to 50-70

[Wolfer]

I have 2 Swedish mod 67 in 12.7x44 on their way. I may or may not be able to shoot them as is with a little case work.
If not can I run a 50-70 reamer in and convert them to 50-70?

[Gewehr-Guy]

Wolfer, you should be able to successfully use your rifles without rechambering, but you have to use another reloading step to chamber a cartridge . I have a Swede that shoots very well,and I just trim the rim dia. from .650 down to .635, and then load with 50-70 dies in the usual way, but then in order to get them to chamber, you remove the decapping stem from the FL sizing die, and run the lubed and loaded cartridge back into the FL sizer , sizing them just enough till they fully chamber.
Then for reloading, I just hand de-prime, charge , and thumb seat a bullet, then into the FL die till it chambers, and your brass should last forever. Try that method when you get your rifles, and let us know how it works for you. Jim

[RustyReel]

Sounds similar to what I do. Starting with Starline 50/70 brass I turn the rim down and then had to trim the case length a very small amount. I use the seating die to crimp but will try the sizing die idea. Been shooting the Lee 515-450 sized to .510 in a Lee sizer. No need to resize cases.

But, you may want to try and chamber a 50/70 case when you get the rifles....could have been converted already. Never know..

[enfield]

Same here, about .010" ish off the rim and you will probably have to shorten the 50-70 case a bit, 450 grain Lee bullit and your all set. One of my swedes was rechambered to 50-70 but that one is no easyer or harder to load for than the others that were not rechambered. Did you say you only have 2, that's no where near enough

[Wolfer]

Thanks guys, I hope to have them late this coming week.

I have an 8x58 already. Make my cases from 338 win mag. Made my own dies. Made a mount to hold an aperture sight or a scope. Preliminary shooting leads me to believe this rifle may shoot really well.

[MOA]

Here are my three swedes. One 8x58Rd and two 12,7x44R. Neither of the 12x44's would take the .515 Lee mould cast boolits, even when sized down to .510, so I ordered Lymans 50 cal plains boolit. I am using Starline 50 alaskan brass shortened to 44mm. Now, just FL size in the 50-70 dies, insert boolit and done. I have loaded these with a starting load of 55 grains of Pyrodex Select RS over a Winchester large rifle magnum primer, one hard card, and seated to the middle of the top driving band. I wanted to do a chamber cast when I got the rifles, but due to most likely the pits and eroded chamber from black powder, the normal method of chamber casting was not possible. I had high hopes of using the Lee moulds, they really turned out some nice boolits, but not to be on these two rifles as they are currently chambered. I will hold on to the moulds just in case I end up rechambering one or both of them. If I do the new calibers will be 45 Colt and the fifty seventy gov't. Will keep my eye on Green Mountain Barrels for sales, if these two are good shooters I may still get another one to have in 45 Colt. Here are a few more images of the current boolit I'm working with for now.

[Wolfer]

That seems simple enough.

[nekshot]

Looks like way to much fun for the human race! Something magic about those big bores. I really wanted one of those guns But enough is enough!!

[MOA]

Looks like way to much fun for the human race! Something magic about those big bores. I really wanted one of those guns But enough is enough!!

Nekshot,........as of this morning simpson.com has 2 to 5 rolling blocks for under 300.00, if you really want one, now is the time to go get one. Have some fun.

[Dutchman]

When you say your new rifles wouldn't "take" the Lee 450 gr what exactly do you mean?

I've loaded and shot .515" diameter cast in mine with no problems. I use .348 Winchester brass to make 12,7x44R but have found the cases should be trimmed shorter and tested with bullets seated to insure the breechblock closes with no effort.

If I was doing this all over again.... I would probably be inclined to just punch out the chamber to .50-70 Gov't since Starline brass is easily available and dies are cheap. I use Lyman .50-70 dies now. Once .348 Win brass is formed and fired its no big deal.




12,7x44R Swedish rolling block
30" barrel sporter

Chronographed with 1867 Remington sporter
using Doudna 450 grain FN bullets .512".
All are excellent loads.
Blackpowder loads uses vegetable wad card
on top of powder (Buffalo Arms).
Cases - reformed .348 Winchester
Standard primer for Unique & XMP5744
Magnum primer for blackpowder

12.5 grs. Unique = 1074 FPS average
very accurate load

24 grs. XMP5744 = 1089 FPS average
26 grs. XMP5744 = 1151 FPS average
27 grs. XMP5744 = 1211 FPS average Do not exceed
70 grs. FFg = 1214 FPS average

350gr FN (Doudna) .512"
29 grs XMP5744 = 1337 fps average Do not exceed
44.44 extreme spread
18.02 std deviation
This is a very accurate load in my 1867 sporter

[MOA]

Hi Dutch,
Well let me explain how I went about getting these two rollers set up to shoot.
1. I got new starline 50 Alaskan brass, and measured the mouth opening which was about .505

2. I trimmed 20 to just under 44MM and measured the mouth opening, it was still just about the same.


3. I then loaded all the brass up with 12 grains of Unique, cream of wheat and a cork with a hot glue top.
4. I then fire formed the brass to to the chambers. I did this process twice and I also oiled lightly the outside of the cases.
5. My goal was to just neck size these cases if at all possible for all my future shooting and loading procedures. So even though I have a set of Lyman 50-70 dies I was initially interested if I could get away with just opening up the mouth just enough to insert either of the Lee .515 dia bollits, as cast and pan lubed. I did not want to open the mouth any more than needed.
6. The 450gr boolits as cast were at .514. pan lubed and inserted into cases. Case mouths were opened just enough to get boolit seated to 22.145 inches. These would not enter chamber all the way.
7. I then ordered a Lee .510 sizer die and sized down the 450gr boolits to a .510 diameter and tried again to chamber the cartridge and again it would not chamber all the way. Since getting a .508 or so measurement on the mouth of the fire formed brass I did not see any benefit to running the brass through the 50-70 sizer die at this time since I was not going to be able to squeeze down the boolits I had to a small enough diameter to fit the sized mouth. I opted to try to locate a mould that was closer to the original boolit diameter of .497, which I found in the Lyman plains mould shown in my post, which chambers without issues.
8. My procedure for loading these for now is the following, and this may change depending on the outcome of my tests.
a. 50 gr of pyrodex, hard card, and the 390 grain plains boolit.
b. I run the alaskan brass through the 50-70 sizer, load magnum primer load with 50 gr or so of pyrodex compress to the mark I have on a 3/8 wood dowel inserted in a fired 45acp case with fired primer still in base. Load the hard card, load the pan lubed plains boolit on top and I am done, case mouth tension is enough to hold the boolit nice and snug. Here is how they look in the new slide.

[Wolfer]

My rifles were supposed to arrive today but tracking now shows them coming tomorrow. I have 50-70 dies a 20 pcs of 50 Alaskan brass. The only 50 cal mold I have is the lee minie. It casts a little big since I beagled it. I size it back to .501 for my muzzle loader.

I thought it might get me by until I see what size my throats are.

[Wolfer]

The blond one appears to be in pretty good shape. It doesn't have a front sight since the barrel has been cut with a hacksaw. It will have to be trued and crowned. I'll solder a ramp on the front.

The other one??? This was the dirtiest gun Ive ever seen. But after complete disassembly and boiling in water for a while it cleaned up pretty good with no pitting or corrosion damage. Rifling is strong but very rough.
I see this one getting a barrel and new wood down the road.
Probably the reason it was $225. I'd take another just like it for the same price.

I haven't cleaned or fired the blond one yet. The only boolits I have are a slip fit in a sized case. I had a few paper patched that I could load. I will have to patch up some more.
I'm still trying to determine my throat size.

[Dutchman]

The other one??? This was the dirtiest gun Ive ever seen.

The "other" one is either a m/60-64-68 or m/64-68 as evidenced by the position of the rear sight.
Is it 6mm or 8-10mm in front of the receiver?

What's the maker's mark on the right side of the receiver?
There should be a date on the underside of the barrel under the handguard. Its a conversion from
an earlier rifle.

Dutch

[Dutchman]

2. I trimmed 20 to just under 44MM and measured the mouth opening, it was still just about the same.

Experiment with one of your .50 Alaskan cases. Trim the length more until it chambers
with a .510" bullet. You're going the other direction by reducing bullet diameter instead of case length.

I'll be interested in hearing about accuracy with the "great plains" bullet.

In my early loading I used Hornady Great Plains .50 which are dead soft pure lead and with a deep hollow base. I never did bench rest those but they did shoot "ok".

Dutch

[RustyReel]

Wolfer. I looked hard at your bottom rifle. I bought the rifle just below it on Simpson's and figured it would ship cheap when combined with another purchase. Rear sight had me confused as I had not seen one like it but it seems Dutchman has. Simpsons had your bottom rifle listed as a Good Bore, after cleaning do you agree??

Anyway, good luck and have fun with them...

[MOA]

Wolfer, the reason the rear sight is so close to the recvr, is upon reading, you will find that they were converting a bunch of muzzle loaders to the rolling block actions, and a quick way was to cut the barrel shorter at the chamber end and rechamber the barrel that way, most of the ones they did that way will have the rear sight almost on top of the receiver. Unless it turns out to be a good shooter, that would be the one I would have re barreled into another caliber., myself I would turn it into a shooter of 45 Colt with a full octagon barrel of about twenty inches and a fast 1 in 16 twist.

[MOA]

Experiment with one of your .50 Alaskan cases. Trim the length more until it chambers
with a .510" bullet. You're going the other direction by reducing bullet diameter instead of case length.

I'll be interested in hearing about accuracy with the "great plains" bullet.

In my early loading I used Hornady Great Plains .50 which are dead soft pure lead and with a deep hollow base. I never did bench rest those but they did shoot "ok".

Dutch

I'll give it a try Dutch, would really hate to not be able to use the two moulds with these rifles since the bore is more suited to these diameters, I'll trim some back to see just how short they need to be in order to chamber, and if a shorter one will chamber and at what length.

[Boz330]

The blond one appears to be in pretty good shape. It doesn't have a front sight since the barrel has been cut with a hacksaw. It will have to be trued and crowned. I'll solder a ramp on the front.

The other one??? This was the dirtiest gun Ive ever seen. But after complete disassembly and boiling in water for a while it cleaned up pretty good with no pitting or corrosion damage. Rifling is strong but very rough.
I see this one getting a barrel and new wood down the road.
Probably the reason it was $225. I'd take another just like it for the same price.

I haven't cleaned or fired the blond one yet. The only boolits I have are a slip fit in a sized case. I had a few paper patched that I could load. I will have to patch up some more.
I'm still trying to determine my throat size.

Treebone offers some nice wood at a reasonable price. I got a stock from them for a converted 8MM that I re barreled to 40-65.

Bob

[salpal48]

Many Of these rollers that were converted To center fire were converted By Bannerman's New York. in the 1901 catalog or there about. Bannerman was the sole imported of this rifle. since they were so close to 50/70 many were reamed and breach blocks were changed or altered.
not says all were done by them but thats how the story goes