12GA FH Slug Tester --

[hubel458]

Info about the toggle link. It is up inside
the breech block, and quite short,and that
allows the overall height of the action to
be relatively compact, for the huge
cases we plan on using.But yet the top
part of the breechblock is solid for
great strength.Ed

[hubel458]

Asked about using 900 gr saboted bullets in
3" plastic cases in regular barrels with
4759 or RL-15 and starter powder.
With bullets that heavy you'd have too
high of pressures with 4759
for plastic cases. Possibly could do
it with RL-15 and starter
powder in plastic, but only
in heavy barreled like NEF.

But the 600 gr Dixie is still the best for
most uses in plastic.

A NEF and brass RMC cases would handle 900 gr
Saboted bullet with RL-15 and starter powder. Start
at 80 gr Rl-15 and go up if cases don't
expand to much to resize.Ed

[lar45]

I saw this on Ebay a few days ago.

It's an extended 12 ga rifled choke tube that extends the barrel by 3 1/2" and made for a Browning BPS.
I bought one of the import 1887 lever shotguns and I was thinking of putting a rifled barrel on it. But with this long rifled choke tube you could have a 23 1/2" barrel, and then have the option of useing regular choke tubes for shot.

I need to become a better machineist so that I can build some toys.

[hubel458]

That's longer than a lot of chokes.
Might work if the 87 barrel is big
enough to thread for it.Ed

[BluesBear]

I have one of those Browning rifled tubes for my 1300 and was thinking of having my Interstate 87 fitted for tubes.

The tube is .992" OD and the threaded shank is the standard .813"

[hubel458]

Here is pic of a double that I will put
barrels in, monoblock style, using the breech
section for the monoblock. This one will be
for 28GA FH. May get another same size for
my 510HE. I will be able to run full pressures
with these.....I am trying to find a bigger,
heavier one to put 12GA FH in. I want
heavier one so as to run pressures like my
Savage as a minimum.Ed.

[BABore]

Ed,

I've been following your 12 gauge project through several of the forums you post on. Very interesting stuff. One thing that I can't recall seeing is any mention of accuracy. Are you getting decent 50 or 100 yard accuracy driving theses slugs fast?

After discussing a few things with you in PM's, I've started a tame 12 gauge project of my own. Oh yeah, I'll be pestering you some more soon. I designed up a 600 gr., 0.730 diameter, slug with a hollow base. I put the HB in it to reduce weight while getting some length. The design is similar to Dixie's 730 grainer. Just about got the cherry done to cut a mold. I've also designed up a Saeco style lubrisizer that will handle a 1" OD die. Plan to complete both soon.

My intent is to load these in 2 3/4" Activ hulls. I picked up 500 new primed hulls before they were gone and have been hoarding them. Never found the need to resize them, even with heavy field loads. I've got two Mossberg 500's with the heavy Trophy rifled barrels on them. I don't plan to get anywhere near where you've been. Just want to make a good, stout, accurate, hunting load. Your loads with 4759 sound like they should work.

[BABore]

btt please

[BABore]

Here's a pic of the first slugs out of the mold. They weight in right at 600 grains (1 3/8 oz). Standard Lyman Foster for comparison.

[hubel458]

BA- those are great looking slugs, As for accuracy I
got 2-3 inch three shot group at 50yds with
peep sights and old eyes, with long case. 730 gr
Dixie and Savage running 25-2600.Ed

[lar45]

BA, very nice job on the mold and slugs.

Ed, looks like you found one of the Spanish doubles? Is it a 12 or 10 ga?

The Belgian 12 ga that I did my 470 on looks like it is starting to shoot loose. I think I'll have to pull the 470 barrels and go with something smaller and lower pressure. I'm thinking a 416 Taylor rimmed with 2.6" 45-90 Starline cases.

I was looking at one of the Huglu 12 ga SxS doubles. It looks like a very solid gun to me. I'm thinking of getting it to put the 470 barrels on.

[Aaron]

What does it take to re-barrel a shotgun to a rifle?

Thanks

[lar45]

There is a good book by W Ellis Brown, Building Double Rifles on Shotgun actions.
This is a good place to start if you're considering it.

One method is to cut the shotgun barrels off someplace infront of the the locking lugs, 2.5-3" ish. You can then thread the section that is left and use it as a Mono-Block. Get your new rifle barrels, have them turned to the profile you want, turn the shank and thread to fit the mono-block. Then screw the barrels in. You can cut the chamber short before putting on the mono-block and then adjust it after it's together. You'll need to solder the upper and lower ribs in place. Put on the latch for the forearm. Install the sights and then regulate the barrels. Twist, shim...until the barrels shoot to the same place and solder them together. then hope that they still shoot to the same place.

You need to be mindful of the case thrust of the cartridge you're looking at and make sure that it will be compatible with the action you choose.
there are many other things to consider as well and they are covered in the book.

Don't know if this helps or just brings up more questions.

I thought about sleeveing the shotgun barrels with a new barrel liner and then shim the ends to regulate and solder in place. I don't think that it looks as good as doing the monoblock, but is less work.
On my site there is also a link to a guy in Norway that made a 45-70 double pistol on a Saur 12 ga double. Norway does not have to worry about our ATF rules on cutting down a shotgun or rifle. So don't everybody jump in and say (Oh that's Illegal!!! The Feds are going to knock down his door!!!) He Lives in Norway!
http://www.lsstuff.com/howdah/470.html

[hubel458]

The pictured one is 10ga Zabala. It is tight
and has crossbolt. I will check on the Huglus,
and they are higher priced I think,But they maybe
are as strong as the Zabalas. I had a thought
of only monoblocking the right barrel in 28ga FH
and leaving left 10ga, get a 12ga one, make right 510HE,
the left as 12ga. Might save a lot of work and
have a 2 real versatile guns.Ed

[Aaron]

Thanks Lar45
I have always been fasinated by big bore rifles and would love to have a double rifle in 470 or 500 NE, but my wallet won't allow that

Aaron

[lar45]

I will check on the Huglus,
and they are higher priced I think,But they maybe
are as strong as the Zabalas. I had a thought
of only monoblocking the right barrel in 28ga FH
and leaving left 10ga, get a 12ga one, make right 510HE,
the left as 12ga. Might save a lot of work and
have a 2 real versatile guns.Ed

The Zabala 10 ga is very beefy, mine look to be very well made and lock up very tight. It should be an excellent gun to build on. I started my 470 project with the intent of building on the 10 ga, but then thought it might be too large and clunky. I guess if I just stepped up to 577NE then it should be about the right size.

The Huglu web page I looked at said they were made from armory grade steel. Wish they would tell you which grade of steel. I was kind of surprized to find that the Win 94 was made with 1119 and the Big Bore with 1141. So I guess not all things have to be 4140.
It would be nice of Huglu would make some with 4140 and offer in a 2 barrel set so you could have the shotgun and then convert the other set for rifle barrels.

On your 28gaFH, could you just sleeve one barrel?

It might be pretty tricky to cut one barrel off and unsolder the rib for the one barrel and then get it all put back together. If you went with a smaller 28ga OD then you'd have to make a new forearm. the rib may have to be completly replaced also.
I guess a big question would be, would it look better or more traditional with a new smaller 28ga barrel?
I've seen pictures of some cape guns where the rifle barrel was considereably smaller.

I picked up an old W. Richards 12 ga double that needs lots of work. I have 2 octagon 50 cal muzzle loader barrels and was thinking about maybe useing the octagon barrels and chambering for 50-70 or 50-90. The 2 full length octagon barrels would make it pretty heavy. It would definatly be different. I haven't seen or heard about an Octagon double.
As always, too many thoughts to get them all done, but...

Aaron, you should pick up the book. It makes for intertesting reading even if you don't think you'll build one.

[Aaron]

I think I will purchase the book. Even if I never get to do it, should be fun reading.
Thanks
Aaron

[hubel458]

Had question about locking RMC cases onto
lead slugs, as they don't crimp into the
grooves well as sharp bend works thick
mouth. First I resize tight and slightly bell
mouth.Insert slugs which take a little pressure.
Then I use a die with slightly more
taper and swage the mouth into slug, like
the fit you get with bottleneck cases.
Same deal works with our long cases made
from BMG brass.Ed

[hubel458]

Preliminary testing with VV N-110 powder shows
it works with small primers like the 4759 powder does,
in plastic cases. Perfect ignition on first
bunch of loads with 600gr hard slugs.Ed

[hubel458]

More VV N-110 testing that we got done.
Starting loads are 60 gr min like 4759 for good
ignition,600gr slug. In 2 & 3/4" plastic full load is 75gr
with card and 1/4" cushion wad.In Nef 24" bbl 1700fps.
In 3" plastic 87gr, card and 3/8" wad, 1800 plus.
In RMC brass case. 100gr, card and 1/2 wad 1900 plus.
All running same safe pressures as 4759 lab tested.
So that is two powders that are slower than shotgun
powders, and much safer to work with for regular
primers, giving at least 20% more velocity. Ed