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Thread: 12GA FH Slug Tester --

  1. #61
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Testing Rocky Mtn cases in NEF.Got 1850 fps
    with 125 gr AA 1680 and 132gr of RE-7.
    And long barrel would get over 2000.
    Cases are 2.9 after 3 firings. AA 1680
    load had .135 card wad and 2 1/2 in lubed felt
    wads, and RE-7 load had same card and
    a 1/2 and a 1/4 lubed wad. Re-7 less dense.
    Base expansion ahead of thick base was
    .002 to .003 and resized without huge effort.
    The base is .300 thick, case has shotgun primers. By the way I put primers in with
    bmg primer post. Works good. Next we cut back
    some cases for the 87 levergun.About same
    loads used in NEF minus wads worked.
    I also felt now that having found loads that
    get velocity without a huge expansion to
    the turned cases(that can't take pressures like
    our cases built from bmg brass), that good low base plastic
    would do the same velocity, in strong alloy
    barreled guns, so I tested plastic with 600 gr
    hardened Dixie slugs, the last 3 days along
    with turned Rocky Mtn cases, and a good result.
    Plastic does as good as turned case loads in NEf.
    And 100 gr Re-7 in 87 gets 1600 in plastic case.
    We load plastic in 87 down due to base expansion
    just ahead of rim in two spots due to extractor
    cutouts. With heavy barrel we will change cutouts.
    If it had long heavy barrel you could get over 2000.
    The plastic will get all the potential that NEF
    and 1887 with long heavy barrel added
    can deliver with RE-7 type loads. And plastic is
    a 100 times more available.And with regular primers so
    gun doesn't have to be worked over for big primers.Ed
    Last edited by hubel458; 10-01-2006 at 12:45 AM.

  2. #62
    Hello Ed and All......I'm glad to see those Dixie slug/bullets are holding up fine for your experiments. Is our Alox wash still working at those velocities? They were lubed with an upgaded (and more expensive) Alox......I like it even better! Cissey is still handling the heat treatment and has got it nailed down good........one hour at 450 degrees and quenched in 70 degree water. The hardness seems very uniform slug/bullet to bullet.
    Keep up the great testing! Regards To All, James
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    Dixie Slugs (dixieslugs.com)-Home of the Dixie Terminator

  3. #63
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    James- Yes the new alox is great. No leading at all and it is
    clean, and not messy. That point design on 600gr is great for
    roll crimping in plastic case. And as you can see with
    heavy strong shotguns they get Nitro Express power. Ed

  4. #64
    Ed, thank you for the feed back! Yes, I also like that truncated cone and it does increase the BC for longer range. Regards, James@Dixe Slugs
    Dixie Slugs (dixieslugs.com)-Home of the Dixie Terminator

  5. #65
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Yes the 600 is nice slug. Doing roll crimp is a problem when
    you don't have the shotgun reloading experience. Now I take cases and cut off old crimped top part, load it up and
    put little pressure on slug( it's down in case a little)
    and use a glue gun.Works great.Ed.

  6. #66
    Banned BluesBear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Monroe, Washington in the The Great Pacific NorthWet
    The roll crimp tool from BPI is designed to be used in a drill press but it works quite well in a regular cordless drill.

    The problem I envision with using a glue gun would be the same as a loose crimp on a metallic cartridge...

    You need enough resistance to allow the powder charge to get a good light before the projectile startes moving. Which in turn will give you more consistent velocities which in turn will give you better accuracy.

  7. #67
    With the truncated cone 600 gr slug/bullet you need to have it deeper in the hull than a regular flater nose design. That gives more hull to roll down on the nose taper. It took a little playing around here to get the rolled crimp correct.....James
    Dixie Slugs (dixieslugs.com)-Home of the Dixie Terminator

  8. #68
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    In brass cases I size them down to make a good
    tension fit on bullet, so there has been no problems.
    Doing crimp when your experimenting is a pain, because column length is different for powders etc. So I just
    keep slug inside as James mentions, a couple dabs glue
    push slug down on the card or card and wad for
    a minute and it is in locked tight.I will look into getting
    that roll crimp tool.Ed.

  9. #69
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Tried one more 1050gr slug in the Savage. Got 2600 fps
    and put a slight crack in the stock.Repaired ok for my
    lesser loads.Will whittle out a thumbhole stock
    for it sometime from one of big blanks I have..Ed.

  10. #70
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    The barrel on 87 will be replaced soon. The barrel has
    a 1.1 inch x 26 thread. Shank is .9 in long. That is more
    than a lot of big rifles.Weighted gun to 12 lbs and it will be
    14 when heavy barrel is on it.ED

  11. #71
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    I'm doing a long chamber in the NEF. Just lengthening
    the present 3 inch chamber .The base size of
    the regular chamber in NEF is max dimensions,
    and in my Savage I have a smaller minimum size.
    It wworks grear with long case. So for brass
    use in the NEF I honed out a base die bigger to
    match NEF size, then it won't over work brass
    and it maybe only will need sizing once in every 20 shots, and with the proper fit resizing will be easier.And
    my other base die does Savage.Same
    top die will do both top halves. Ed

  12. #72
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Got the NEF chambered for long case. And remember it
    has beefed up hammer for bmg primers used in our case.
    Got 2500 fps with 600 gr slug, cases eject out real easy,
    8300 ft lbs from an NEF with 24 inch barrel.If you set up
    NEF to use regular primers adapted to our case or
    have Rocky Mtn make a long case you can do it without
    a lot of work on the hammer and springs. Just use a
    flake shotgun powder as a starter powder above the
    primer, which how 700 NE and others are loaded.
    Use 10 gr of flake and cut regular load 40 gr and
    work up if pressures allow.Ed.

  13. #73
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Good news I got the 1887's hammer beefed up so
    it fires the bmg primers in our case.
    We will be testing small primers, with starter powder
    in plastic and Rocky Mtn cases using RE-12 and 15 powders.
    I think they will do better than RE-7 and have
    less case expansion.Ed

  14. #74
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    I got the hammer on 87 beefed up to fire big primers.
    Still testing plastic and turned cases in 87.
    We are testing small primers with 10gr starter powder(Blue
    Dot) anD RE-7 and 15.Plastic cases max is 90gr RE-7 with
    10 gr starter, turned brass case 110gr RE-7 10 gr starter.
    WE had to go to starter powder as we was getting
    delayed ignition and squib loads.
    Testing the cases,plastic and brass with small
    primers and starter powder ... A big find. IE we can't do
    this for reliable ignition if the cases
    are ballon head, whether plastic or brass.The cases must have the area between side and
    the pprimer at least .200 thick.One reason is
    strength. And some plastic I have measured is
    only about .060 thick there and the protrusion
    in the center for primer is .140 above that
    thickness.. So 10 gr of starter powder is
    in a groove so to speak and not on top of primer!!! That isn't good. I cut the cases
    off at the brass base, poured in 10 gr
    of flake powder and saw how it laid
    in the case. Nice thing is that a most brands of cases are thick enough, like Win AAs.
    So far RE-15 and Blue Dot starter looks
    very good, and easy on cases.Velocity as good as RE-7.Will keep testing and I ran out of
    RE-12 and the shops have no more, So
    it will be RE-15 which I think turning
    out best, or RE-7 in smaller

  15. #75
    Banned BluesBear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Monroe, Washington in the The Great Pacific NorthWet
    What methods are you using to insure that the "starting" powder is staying next to the primer and not mixing in with the main propellant?

  16. #76
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    I keep the case setting level and pour in the other powder
    real slow, so as not to move starter powder away from primer.
    And also put card, and wads if needed, tight along with
    slug. I sectioned a low base loaded plastic and the starter
    powder was in right place. Ed

  17. #77
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Results of RE-15 testing in plastic cases.
    600 gr hardened Dixie slug and 10gr
    of Blue dot starter powder in both lengths.
    In Nef, 3 inch case is about 2.6 crimped,
    and 120 gr RE-15 max load. In 1887, 2.75 inch
    cases are about 2.35 crimped, 110 gr RE-15
    max load. In 2.75 case thats all it will
    hold,with card wad, in longer make up space with wads.The reason I'm checking plastic is so many shotgun reloading guys want more power for big game, and they are set up to
    load plastic.
    Greg clued me in on another powder that may do the job without starter powder
    and be slow enough to get velocities up
    without to much pressure. It's IMR SR-4759.
    Will have some in couple days.I made contact
    to get some of these loads pressure tested,
    to check my pressure calculations..Ed.

  18. #78
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Been testing IMR-4759. No ignition problems.
    Ignition is instant with regular primers.
    Don't need Blue Dot starter powder.
    Plastic cases first.600 gr slug. I got a
    nice working roll crimper attachment
    for drill press for crimping slugs.
    That sure makes it easy, and perfect crimp.
    In 2 & 3/4 plastic cases with loaded
    length of about 2.35 inches got to 80gr.
    That's max as you must leave room for
    about 3/8 wads or cushion wad. Some cases
    may only hold 75 grains max due to
    the case construction.Powder is less dense
    than RE-15. 1650 plus fps in 24 inch barrel.
    In 3 inch cases, loaded length about 2.6
    inches, got to 95 grs max, 1800 plus fps.
    Some cases may only hold 90 gr due to
    case construction. Cushion is
    a half inch felt wad or equivalent.
    Both lengths start down and go up
    if pressures allow. 60 gr short case,70 long.
    This powder being faster than RE-15 you must
    have a little cushion in the way of felt wads
    or plastic cushion wads.With slower RE-15
    a card wad works ok as powder started slower.
    The powder burning must build pressure
    to open crimp with out a high pressure spike.
    This bulky powder with reliable ignition
    is a winner.Then we tested 3" Rocky Mtn brass
    cases, Got max load of 105 gr, and 1900 plus
    fps. In few weeks will get the 4759 and RE-15
    loads pressure tested.Ed

  19. #79
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    East Coast
    Ed, I told you it would work. Plus there is no need for the starter powder.
    I just want to know the pressure results.
    Greg S
    Last edited by Greg5278; 10-25-2006 at 08:27 PM.

  20. #80
    Slug Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Greg-Thanks for the help.We will let everyone know
    the pressures and velocities from Tom's

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check