12GA FH Slug Tester --

[hubel458]

Reminder if needing our 12ga discarding sabots contact

jeff.a.white at gmail.com

Time to get them and tested. The fellow with
the tight barrel Abolt who did the work to shrink
his groups, in spite of the tight barrel,got a deer with it.Ed

[hubel458]

Here is good simple system with big hollowbase slugs to stop
the skirts from deforming, or wads getting pushed into
the hollow base. I found that dense dow foam works
good, I was using glue gun, but the dense foam is easier, cut
plugs out of foam sheet and force into the base. Make it a
tight fit, use spot of glue inside, glue that is for foam....
Trim off the foam flush..In picture is 10 ga 900gr slug
with foam pressed into the base..



How we get good 24ga plastic seals with protusion on
top that fits up inside 58cal Minie base, same bore as 24ga
and our 585HE. I get the 24ga seal by cutting apart the BPI
24ga Brush wad, getting two seals out of each.Works great
in plastic case giving a shorter column than other seals and
wads, so we can get in enough of our 4759 for good speed.
The 24ga idea is getting nicer all the time with
the variety of cheap 58cal slugs, and good 3" brass cases,
drawn cases, we didn't have to wait to get made.
And all kind of guns we can use, bolt 395 Mossbergs, single
shots of all kinds, Autos,, pumps. bolt action Savage,
even 1887 Win and Greener MKIII, bolt action JC Higgins. .



Here is picture Khan auto we setting up 24ga FH, it is 3.5"
model, has a 12ga barrel to change with. Being 3.5" it
feeds/ejects through lengthened port 3" brass 24ga cases we
made from 577NE brass. We rework back of the bolt for
slightly longer stroke.Ed

[hubel458]

Those wanting to get our 12ga discarding sabots contact

jeff.a.white at gmail.com


He can ship US, Canada, or anywhere. Ed

[longbow]

Now there are a couple of great ideas Ed! I am guessing you know that already.

I just may give the foam a try but fisrt, I am building my rifling machine to try a deep rifled slow twist choke tube. We'll see how that goes.

Longbow

[NLS1]

One of the most amazing threads I have ever read. Thank you for sharing so much effort and information hubel, truly an amazing amount of knowledge in this thread.

I will need to go back through and read more, but each page was fascinating. Looking forward to a project of my own with one of these options.

Dan

[hubel458]

Here is picture of 24ga cases, loads; and some slugs and seals.
Brass cases are 3", plastic cases are 2.5". Brass 3" can be loaded
to match 577NE power.



Here is of 24ga in an 87 Win, just test gun of mine. Uses same barrels
as our 585HE, This one has slow twist for Minie bullets.Our guys
have got supply of regular and slow twist barrels.



Here is picture of the first 585HE done and shooting in Australia.
It is owned by the poster, 'tankhunter' on the AR forums.
Built by his smith who has a reamer.
Guys there can get cases from Bertram, and there will soon be three
reamers there. There is a company there now making 585 barrels,
Allan and Grant Swan. in Redbank, Queensland.....Ed

[Hogtamer]

Just wanted to know about other's results with these sabots and minies. Somebody bought a bunch of sabots but no range results to speak of. I'm about to start loading 2 3/4" federal hulls with XX? (42 ok to start?) grns of Steel, an x12x op seal, a 1/4" felt wad, a Lee .575/500 minie (mine are dropping @ 540!!) and a crimp. Do I need a magnum primer? I have WIn 209s on hand. Will be shooting an 870 express, rifled barrel and scoped. I no experience with Steel powder. Ed, this look ok to you?

[Hogtamer]

Saw this wasn't going in 2 3/4 so loaded on in 3" federal hull w/48 grns. None of that matters as the round won't chamber. Got a perfect crimp but there's enough bulge in the hull at the top of the sabot that makes it unusable. This is supposed to be a slug that works but so far is an expensive bust.Attachment 103598

[hubel458]

Can't tell from picture is that a roll crimp.

What do the slugs measure for diameter with a mic/calipers.
That mold shouldn't make them that heavy, If it hasright mold number
on it and/or right base pin.

Win STS primers are fine that is what I use.
You can start with 40 gr Steel, no less.

Now if that mold makes the lands of the side of the slug
line up with the internal ridge of sabot it will
bulge out oversize. The ridge has to be in a groove
or just above the top land or shoulder.ED

[Hogtamer]

Better news to report...The sabots wouldn't work "as is" with a modern minie or 500 gn traditional minie. i found a "drum sander" attachment for dremel tool that I used to remove the lip on the inside of the sabot. Now i have a good fit in both Federal and Remington 3" hulls. Got some loaded with 50 grns Steel, CCI magnum primer, x12x op wad, 1/4" felt wad and sabot. G ot a good 6 pt. crimp - don't have a roll crimper - but the shell looks good. Don't know that I'll get to shoot this week but feel better about investment in this project than I did last week. Will post results when I can get to range.

[hubel458]

Roll crimp is best. Slug shold be .575" dia only,

If slug pushes out sabot because the ridge inside in on thr slug
or a land on the slug no good and ridge inside should stay
there and make area of slug pushing sabot out smaller.
Ed

[hubel458]

Asked about of .575" Minies to use and what to make them
fit without wallering out sabot.

.The one on lower left new style, top old style, right
one that Dixie Gunworks sells/Got shoulder swaged
a little on the new style where inside ridge is, New style in pic 500gr,
old style 440 gr.. Other is 440 gr hollowbase with deep grooves.Ed

[hubel458]

Finally got back to forums.Been busy with 24ga FH and 585HE
and getting 585 cases made, as many as possible...
We are now working a bit with 24ga FH and here is picture
of it with our 585HE case. Both use same bullets/slugs, same
bore barrels. Main use difference, 24ga FH easy setup in break
actions and 585HE in bolt actions and falling blocks.

Picture of non-discarding 585/24ga sabot cup I found that holds
458 bullets and slugs tight. It had hammerhead type slug in it that
was pulled out and they wouldn't stay in tight. Sabot was a loose fit
in 20ga, made for 20ga, but small, so I shrunk the bottom rib,
fits perfect, super tight, in 24ga and 585HE. Fits real tight to give
good resistance for good ignition.

Here is another 24ga/585 sabot that holds .452" 45cal pistol
bullets. Made by Hornady for 58cal ML. With 250 gr bullet in 585
will go about mach 4.

Here is easy way to weight plastic stocks with hollow butts, use rubber
coated computer mouse balls, weight comes out perfect without being
too heavy if using that much lead.And coating keeps them quiet, and
we hold them in with piece dense foam under butt pad....Ed

[hubel458]

First AUS buffalo killed by 585HE. By Tankunter with his Ruger #1.
If you use closeup on picture, you see loaded round on the buffs hide
next to the 585HE Ruger #1.... A nice heavy barreled gun..Ed

　
I put the 585 in a Savage 112, lots of room lengthwise, figuring out an
extractor is a problem, but then got a look at the savage 212, the 12 ga
one with big diameter bolt and locking lugs. Its locking lugs are bigger
than the lugs in a big PH bolt action. So one day will do one
on a Savage 212, and adjusting extractor to fit no problem...Ed

[hubel458]

Here is picture of 100 cases loaded with CEB solid nose bullets
and hollowpoints. This bullet is a turned solid with wide meplat
or wide hollowpoint. .

Here is picture of triball loads that fellows like for deer and hogs,
and just general tear em up fun, with using BPGS seal to improve
sealing under what are heavier loads. The balls are .600" and
315gr. each. The wadcup is a TUPRW123 that Precision sells.

I need a bunch of empty 3.5" 20ga plastic cases.
　
Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro
Express rimmed case, that many big game hunters like, usually
set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga
size to 577NE, to 585 Nyati with G&A picture of Ross Seyfreid
shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses
off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over with recoil,
to our 585HE the strongest yet.
The 577NE is an offshoot of 24 gauge caliber paper cases, only they went
eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short
cases and black powder, cases built like shotgun cases, called the
577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, still with black powder,
then on to drawn brass cases, called 577 BP Express. then to 3"
and other longer cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet
of .570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet
diameter ended up at .585". This general bore diameter of cartridge guns
and muzzle loaders, it is really interesting on how they developed
and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider
was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all
over the British Empire, by the tens of millions.
Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have made a
24ga FH, a slight regression to earlier times, by taking 577NE brass, and
reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And
stamp the caseheads 24 ga.
For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing
the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions, and finding
reasonable price rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, work for 24ga.
The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are
about a third the cost of 600NE brass, or getting turned 24ga cases made.
We could use 24ga thin cases but they are a pain, expand way too much,
with slug loads which makes resizing without crumpling cases a problem.
Info about the power in types of guns normally set up with 24ga FH,
break actions, bolt shotguns,etc. In thin brass 24ga case, 440gr slug
goes 1500, with about 2000 ft lbs, that's in a 2.5" Magtech brass case.
Now using the better, heavier 3" brass we got, we can increase speed
to 1750 fps increasing energy 50%, going to 2000 fps about doubles
energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, in heavy barrel
gun, gets us near 2 1/2 times the energy. About 37-40,000 psi which the
actions hold in this smaller diameter case, compared to 12 gauge size.
So makes relatively smaller bore shotgun, 24ga, with 458WIN power.
.Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.
Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga
and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed
　

[cpileri]

what is the pressure and performance change when adding the bpgs under the tupr wad in the triball load?
C-

[Al in Mi]

what is the pressure and performance change when adding the bpgs under the tupr wad in the triball load?
C-

I was wondering the same and even with 28gr of BD I can barely get it to roll crimp to length and run thru my M2.

[hubel458]

I used it in 3.5" case which makes easier. I figure extra thickness of seal
would keep base of wad from coming apart. Maybe for short cases, at least
for me, I'd use two balls and cut wad back. If two balls hit within 4"
at 50 yds, that is as good as a 3 ball load with two that way and
a wide flyer... No pressure signs using 4759. Ed

[cpileri]

what is your 4759 load w triballs? the dixie load is blue dot.

[hubel458]

In 3.5" case , 70Gr of 4759...... Probably in a 3" case with 2 balls

use 70 gr also, about all you can get in.Ed