12GA FH Slug Tester --

[hubel458]

Here is picture of the 12ga short brass RMC cases being used in
the 1887 WIN shown above. They are 2 5/8" long cases and we
get 600gr over 1900. He had work done on action to get it to feed
these and 3" roll crimped plastic. Brass loaded about same length
as 3' plastic crimped little long.



Next pic are Lyman slugs cast for thin 12ga wad, used in thickwall
10ga VP100 wads. These Lymans I got are on large size and fit
VP100 fairly well. Makes easy, lighter, superfast load in 10ga.



Next is a further idea with Longbow's tube and roundball slug shown above.
Use tube hot glued to ball with screw in the back and use it in
a 10ga VP100 wadcup. These type slugs little more accurate used
in wads as opposed to fullbore.



Next shows picture of a long 585 bullets, about 1600gr in our 585HE
cases. Got the idea from Bret In Minn that could setup 585HE
guns with super long throat and load down to subsonic speeds to
make the 585HE Whisper.....And regular bullet loads would still fire
in the same guns......And at subsonic 1050fps it would have about
4000 ft lbs, about twice what the peashooter whisper cases have.
And my case could get a 2400 gr long bullet to same subsonic speed
for 6000 ft lbs. And one that long would have proportions like the
newer tank cannon, smooth barrel saboted darts, that it could be
possibly be done, using long 2400gr in smooth barrel.
Neat ideas from guys interested in whisper type loads.



Last is picture of FBW in our 585HE with handgrip stock and light
barrel for lightweight carrying. Grip is weighted, gun is 6lbs.
Barrel is 28". I'm not a fan of light barrels. 650gr at 2500 is max of
what I can hold onto shooting from the hip Moderate load...Ed

[jmort]

"Last is picture of FBW in our 585HE with handgrip stock and light
barrel for lightweight carrying. Grip is weighted, gun is 6lbs.
Barrel is 28". I'm not a fan of light barrels. 650gr at 2500 is max of
what I can hold onto shooting from the hip Moderate load...Ed"

Want to feel like a tiny, limp-wristed, girly-man,just read one of the two best threads ever. I'm often found shooting 9,000 ft lbs loads in six pound guns with pistol grips. Seriously though, when are you putting out your "HE" wads/sabots? Inquiring minds want to know.

[hubel458]

I have big hands and 270 lbs and I only shot couple. Much better at 2000.
Which is 577NE levels. Just something to impress the gun nut grandkids.

Sabots will be around in a couple months so they tell me. It takes
a long time to get stuff done in the gun and shooting business.Ed

[jmort]

Good news and thanks for the response

[hubel458]

I meant a couple weeks---

We have a winner it seems. The 12ga sabots using 58cal slugs.



The sample 12ga sabots got here earlier this week. And we got a bunch
of testing already for opening and sealing, and some accuracy testing .440gr
Minie bullet, measuring .575"; with OD of sabot with slug in it of .737" It is
perfect. Going moderate 1800. Petals opened perfect and evenly and they all
stayed on perfect. No petals twisted or torn. Tested in 3" case with slower
powder loads. 80gr of 4759 and 50gr Alliant Steel. Fiocchi case.
Savage 210 rifled barrel, 1 to 35 twist. Cases with slower powders expanded
only a little, and those cases are soft ones.
We have big bunch of the sabots here now.




All petals were opened at about 30 deg to the base when picked up.
With ither powder the bases have no damage, or burn throughs or melting.
Took rifling perfect, so skidding on the rifling. Most of the rifling grip is on the
bottom half of sabot, which is why these and Accutips are best as the bottom
is full size instead of dropping back in size, compared to the top, like many
other sabots. Rifling in the barrel still clean..



The Minies are hollow based and the slug edges did not cut into the inside of the
sabot bases,just a slight impression. We have got good base thickness.
Good Accuracy - In the cold and very windy day, hit milk jugs at 30 yds.
Here is picture inside sabot showing just a slight indent. No need of cards under
slugs, and if you did, the the slugs would set up in sabot and not have the
curve of the slug behind the inside circular rib for best fit...

You got to use right powders. With right slower powders( not fast shotgun),
that start easier and used in larger amounts, you won't tear up the sabots.
It is false economy to use all fast shotgun powders,trying to get twice as many
shots per pound... and tear up sabots, expand cases too much, get poor groups,
miss that deer or whatever. For most of you in 3" cases Alliant Steel is best.

Interested in sabots -- gunowner at journey.com Ph- 1-989-644-5228
THE undersize blue ones sold elsewhere for 34 bucks a hundred plus postage.
Ours are 33 bucks per 100 postage included, or $20 for 50 postage included,
with a bonus WE WILL send along 10 slugs with 100 order, 5 with 50 order.
to show you what to get and to test with. Slugs can be 440gr or 500gr..Ed

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Good morning Big Brother Ed, let me take this opportunity to Congratulate you and wish you the very best!

You are and have always been a great person, looking forwards to working with you in the near future!

We had a unspoken promise among us that we would send our samples to each other, where are my samples, Brother Ed?
Its comedy time now, based on your reply to that.

Warmest regards,
Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
Blazing Sabots, LLC
www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl
www.facebook.com/pages/Preci...75489969155338

[longbow]

I'll bet that would be a good sabot for the Lyman 577611 Minie with it's thick skirt. Mind you, that impression from the Minie looks like that one has a very thick skirt too.

I used to really like the 577611 in my .58.

Were the Minies soft lead or a hard alloy?

Those sabot bases do look good. They look very thick and tough too.

It is a good point you make about slower powders. I haven't ventured into your loading territory yet and am still using mostly Blue Dot and IMR4756 so far but even with those powders there is a noticeable difference in wad condition when compared to faster powders. Also, wads make a big difference too. I 've shot 12 ga. Win AA Reds in smoothbore with very poor results. Not only do petals "mush", wrinkle and shear but the gas seal is thin and often blows at the edge. Other wads are in such good condition that they could almost be reused.

Recovered wads always tell a story. Looks like you have a good design going there.

Longbow

[hubel458]

Ajay- I'll get you some to test..

In a 3" plastic case we only used 90gr 4759 with 600gr Dixie
that we lab tested years ago..
And in 3" case with seal, and 1/4" white felt wad, and the sabot with 440gr
slug only could get in 80gr. Sabots do not work out as short, as short
squat lead slugs.

For the same plastic case, seal, 1/2" wad, sabot, using Allant Steel-- max is 55gr,
above that cases stick on my testing over the years with
similiar weught slugs/sabots..Ed

Slugs are soft lead about 8 hardness
I have the 611 ones here also. To fit under the shoulder inside
perfect, I swage top diameter down to .560" --down to
to first groove.

Do the same for Lyman 500gr new style. Lyman old style fits perfect in
440 or 490 gr. I was going to set it up taller to take 611 and new style
but then a whole bunch of shorter ones would have a loose fit.
And probably the 611 and the new style would be just as accurate
just as they come as the plastic has lots of give. That ridge
or shoulder inside isn;t very thick.Ed

[hubel458]

Here is picture of a bunch of the sabots with different slugs and bullets.
Back Row- Two roundball load, balls 285gr each-- pointed long 700 gr -- a blunt
solid 700gr-- tungsten slug 1000gr --- jacketed bullet -- 600gr.
2nd row-611 Lyman 530gr Minie- 500gr flat base- Lee 500gr hard--Lee 500gr soft
1st Row- Lyman 440gr old style minie-- Lyman 510 gr new style-- 440gr from Dixie
Gunworks-- 400gr Lee target style. I like 440gr old style and 440 gr Dixie. For sale
on Gunbroker is all sizes and weights.. Or cast your own. Lots of moulds around.
Lee moulds only 20 bucks. Best diameters to use are .574 " to .577" Minies.
If you have ones bigger and they are not hardened you can roll them betweem two
hard surfaces and they will get little smaller. I have some that are .585" 440gr
and work in my 585HE and they can be rolled smaller.



Here are sabots with variety of seals/wads, and the shortest one in picture with
white felt wad just fits in 3" case with 80gr 4759, and still leaves room to roll crimp.
I compress it in hard. Now only faster powder than 4759 I'd use is Alliant Steel in
smaller amounts, 50gr Steel, in 3", and thicker wads and cushions like shown.
To roll crimp over the top edge of sabot we had .220" of case before crimping.
You only have to crimp top edge of sabot real good.




After crimping the slugs are tight and don't move around. The circular rib inside the
sabot holds slugs tight back into the base. Speeds over 2000 fps
will be gotten using 3.5" plastic cases, with our slower powder loads. .
More testing for accuracy yesterday, a warmer, calmer day, with steel sights.
Hit. paper plate at 50 yds.

As said above, best to use right powders. Right slower powders( not fast shotgun),
that get to peak pressure slower, thus can use larger amounts, can get to higher
velocities, and you won't tear up the sabots and won't expand cases as much.

For most of you in 2.75" and 3" cases Alliant Steel is best.
FOR 440GR SLUGS IN SABOT---For 2.75" start at 40gr and go up to about 50.
For 3" start at 45gr go up to about 55. I like 3.5" best as you can load much easier
for speed, still have more cushion wads. Start with 50gr Steel, go up to about 62.
Case brands act different, but using the slower powders minimizes the differences
and keeps us away from surprizing pressure problems.

In 3" plastic,most 4759 I can get in and still have 1/4"cushion is 80gr.... In the 3.5"
I can get in 105 gr with this sabot and get over 2000 fps, In these loads if using
480-500gr cut back 3 gr. These 58cal slugs can be cast or they are at Dixie Gunworks
and 4 guys on Gunbroker got them. Get ones .574" to .577"


Interested in sabots--- gunowner at journey.com Ph- 1-989-644-5228
THE undersize blue ones sold elsewhere for 34 bucks a hundred plus postage.
Ours are 33 bucks per 100 postage included.
Or $20 for 50 postage included..
.Or 150 for $45 postage included----- ALL with a bonus
WE WILL send along 10 slugs with 100 order, 5 with 50 order. 15 with 150 order.
to show you what to get and to test with. Slugs can be 440gr or 500gr......Ed

[hubel458]

Here is picture of 45-50yd target, used a scoped NEF Ultra, the sabot load of a 440gr
58cal slug in it at 1800... Measures 2.5" on outside for 3 shots.



Here is pic of almost 2100 of them. More coming. Time to
get them and get loads working.



A little levity in this process.Ed

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Big Brother Ed, you did a great job designing those Super Sabots, I was very happy when I got my shipment and they really look very good and when my son tested them at the range they were very accurate and shot well through my Savage F212 with your A. Steel load but I down loaded them by 3 gr and yet they were very accurate.

The best advise I can give My Family of Slug Shooters is to drop the charge by 4 gr and then come up gradually 1/2 gr at a time, that is the load will kick like a mule.

My son really liked them.

Please send me another 3 bags before you run out!

Warmest regards,
Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
Blazing Sabots, LLC
www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl
www.facebook.com/pages/Preci...75489969155338

[hubel458]

Some more info about our sabots and various slug weights......
First and most important is our sabots fitting real tight like the Accutip
Sabots, they will not get the same speed at the same pressures as
the undersize grey and blue ones, But they do leave the barrel
headed straighter and without damage, even with hollowbase 58cal
slugs in them as the pics above show. With no cards under slugs,
But with good powder seals and with Alliant Steel good 1/4" minimum
cushion wads.

The 440gr Minie slug of .575" in the 3" cases is the one I used as a
base loading, to work each way by weight to find what loads of
Alliant Steel work and extract in my NEF. Using 3" soft base cases.
Here is pic of before/after of Fiocchi cases, on right unfired and left
fired, 55gr Steel with 440 gr slug.



For 440gr max of 55gr Steel
For 400gr max of 57gr Steel
For 360gr max of 59gr Steel

For 490gr max of 52gr Steel.
For 510gr max of 49gr Steel
For 540gr max of 47gr Steel.

I tested all these weights for extraction. It is real nice to reach into a
bucket, grap a sabot that fits right, and go to loading and shooting.
Many of you need to get in on the fun.
Here is picture of Fiocchi with sabot, roll crimped. The top of sabot is
perfect for roll crimping...It is setting under crimp tool in drill press.



Earler I showed the 585HE Falling block with pistol grip and the light
barrel. Here it is with Knoxx Compstock buttstock. We added 2 extra
springs inside for relatively hard recoiling gun, as stock originally made
for a REM 870 Pump. Works great and looks nice; will putting one on
the Magtech 585HE singleshot break action and got one in rifle stock
for Ruger 77 in 585HE.



And many guys want wildcats with shoulders, with big neck down, so
for those who want ultimate blaster, here is the 700HSM. Shown next
to Gibbs 650gr ball powder..1000gr at 3800...How about that.
Will be one of only 2 guns I plan on being over 30 lbs, other is 2bore..
Whoppee.....Ed

[dverna]

There is a fine line between insanity and genius.

I am too smart (or chicken?) to pull the trigger on any gun that will chamber those monsters.

[hubel458]

950 sabots of the 10,000 gone in 10 days. Time to get them.

AND TEST THEM and let us know how they do. It would be

great if they are as good as the good factory sabots,

and we get them tested and figured out before next deer

and hog seasons.

Two ways it could work out---A Little humor--

1) If they are good they will be Hubel Sabots- 2) if bad, Damn Hubel Sabots--

I have set it up so they can be paid through PayPal if you want..
100 $33--150 $45-- 200 $57-- Every extra 50 $12.
Contact info above.Ed

[hubel458]

After this weekend, 12ga sabots are going to be supplied
to reloaders by someone else.... IE; By Whoever buys my
stash of the 8100 of them left...Ed

[jmort]

Why are you abandoning this long standing goal? I don't have a rifled shotgun. Do the sabots have an application in a smooth bore? Thanks

[hubel458]

An explanation of what is happening--
I only wanted to develope a good sabot, sell enough to get money I spent back,
for making them, and let other people/companies, etc sell them. The money
I have in them is needed right now for my 585HE case order. My resources just depleted fast this winter due to
super major family health problems.
And The sabot process
took 8 months or more longer than I had planned, so I had no chance
to get money back I pu into it on small sales in time to
help me out this winter.. The mfg can make more by the hundreds
of thousands. So whoever takes over selling can always get them. I am keeping big bunch here and I will keep
on testing and experimenting with them

Smooth bores- They work for 30 yd use =Use improved cylinder
or cylinder chokes with .575"
440 gr hollowbase Minie that Maplewood sells on Gunbroker.
That 440 gr Minie is the one with the deepest hollow base.
There should be other hollowbase ones that may work
especialy if round nose.Ed

[hubel458]

We're getting low on the slugs to send with the sabots,
and no one has picked up selling the rest yet, so we will
try selling them a couple weeks longer. So to get these
moving out and getting tested and we pay our bills,we will
be having sale on just the sabots, in larger amounts only.
We will send one each of 440gr and 500gr slug so
the guys can see what we have found that works.
Because of the shipping costs and boxes that 2,3, or 4 bags
of sabots fit in, that we can afford to pay postage on,
we will sell these in 200, 300, and 400 size orders..
So, 200 sabots $47 Shipping included,
300 sabots $65 Shipping included...400 for $83 shipping incl.
Now 200 of the other brand of undersize ones cost $68
plus shipping. There was dozens of guys the last few
years all over the internet that bought undersize junk,
that wanted good sabots and complained that the ones
they bought elsewhere didn't work...... I haven't heard
from most of them, So guys please get around quick
and help us out here. We can do MO, Check, Paypal..Ed

[silas oberhauser]

hubel458, who did you go to to get them made?

[turbo1889]

I don't think he is going to tell anyone that until he recoups at least most of what he has put into the project (and I don't blame him). I'll have a little money freed up the end of this week and I'll probably buy a 200 count from him. Not into the sabot thing a huge amount myself (mainly a full bore man myself) but my gal is and she is off the net and I should probably get some for her, she wouldn't like to have missed out on this.