20ga Lyman Slug Wad Suggestions

[EMC45]

Folks, I've searched the search function here and all over the internet. I need the help of the shotgun pros with this one. My 20ga slugs are not accurate.......

I am casting the Lyman FOSTER slug in 20ga and currently am using WAA-20 (Claybuster equivalent) with the pedals cut off. My powder load is a shot equivalent (weight) load of Green Dot. These slugs shoot like lightening - never hit the same place twice.

The gun is a youth Remington 20ga. Express 870 with IC choke. I have a Full and a MOD choke for this gun. Will changing choke make that big of a difference?

What do the pros suggest for this slug for wad selection.

Any and all suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks.

[Hogtamer]

Can’t say for sure about the 20s but the 12 ga fosters are so undersized they rattle down the barrel

[longbow]

What Hogtamer said!

Again, I am not sure about the 20 ga. Foster but my 12 ga. Foster mould casts at 0.705" in pure lead.

If cast from soft lead the slugs do swell up to fill the bore but do so inconsistently in my experience so accuracy is poor. I have been told that if I used a hard card wad column that ensures the swelling of the slug and good accuracy. Didn't work for me but worth a try.

My barrel is a Browning BPS Buck and Slug barrel with I/C choke.

So before I ramble on here, the first thing you should do is slug your bore... not choke, bore and mic a slug to find out if the slug is undersize like the 12 ga. slug. I suspect it is.

I tried paper patching the 12 ga. slug to bore size and that helped but accuracy was still mediocre and there were some fliers. I did not pursue that further but it may be worth looking at as it is cheap and easy. I used shopping bag brown paper which was still available then but any paper should work. You will likely have to slit the patches part way down to ensure they release. Alternately Teflon or Mylar wrap may work. That I didn't try.

Also, I ran into issues with plastic cushion legs jamming into the hollow base and that of course destroys accuracy. So, I started filling the hollow cavity with cornmeal which seemed to help but better would be hot melt glue or some form of flexible caulk.

A nitro card wad under the slug and on top of a cushion leg or a hard card wad column may work but filling the cavity is better. Having said that, if the slug is much undersize for the bore then filling the cavity will stop it from swelling to fill the bore so I'd suggest filling the cavity and paper patching or using a nitro card wad under the slug and paper patching. I wouldn't shoot a paper patched and filled slug through a full choke. It should squish to fit but I'd limit choke constriction to modified at most.

You might also look at a new mould... Lyman makes a wad slug "pellet" style slug mould for both 12 and 20 ga. however, from what I understand the 20 ga. version does not give very good accuracy from smoothbore.

Round balls in shotcups or full bore round balls also work well in smoothbores. So there's another option and Lee should have a suitable size round ball mould so not an expensive option either. I wouldn't shoot a round ball through a choke tighter than I/C.

In the end, you want a snug fit of slug to bore to provide decent accuracy and that should be under 6" at 50 yards. My good round ball loads give 3" to 4" groups at 50 yards from 12 ga. and that rivals or beats most hollow base slugs I have tried.

Going more extreme, you could make base wads from felt or plastic and screw them to the slug Brenneke style but again if the slug is undersize you have to address that first.

Longbow

[centershot]

EMC45,
However you do it, you'll need a relatively tight fit of projectile to bore. Using 0.662" round balls in my 12 ga. I didn't get good accuracy until my payload was 0.010" over bore diameter. This was using a Federal 12S3 wad. I haven't worked out a 20 ga. load yet but I expect that I'll have to load it somewhat over bore size to make it work.

If your castings are undersize, then I would load them in a plastic wad with petals intact, a 0.125" x 28 ga. nitro card in the bottom of the wad cup, then the slug. You also may want to fill the base of that casting with hot glue. Try it both ways. You may need to have a paper or mylar wrap circumferentially around the slug (I used paper, worked great) to "snug" the fit. Once I wrapped it, my load came together wonderfully.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...tershot+sabots

Keep trying, I know it can be frustrating but the answer is out there, you have to do the work to find it!


ETA: Fire your rounds for one test string and then go pick up your wads. Wads tell a story if you examine them and "read" what they have to say. As mentioned above, I use Federal 12S3 wads because my testing showed they were doing the job better than the Winchester's. Forget Remington's for slug loads - thy're great for clays and game loads but the ribs on their petals raise havoc with round ball and slug loads.

[longbow]

centershot brings up a couple of good points there I should have mentioned.

Depending on whether your slugs are undersize or how much undersize, it is possible that you could size them down to fit into a shotcup. Not sure just what size you'd need but I think around 0.575" for good fit to wad. Many of the rifled gun shooters use .58 Minies in shotcups in their 20 ga. guns. There should be a 0.575" sizer around or you could get one made. Now, whether you can size the slug down that much I don't know.

Wads... recovered wads will tell you a story. In your case, you are using just the cushion leg but even that should show signs of blown gas seal or whether it deformed by pushing into the hollow cavity. In some cases the wads jam into the HB cavity so travel with the slug destroying any hope of accuracy because they will pretty much always be skewed. "Good" wads will look like they could be reloaded again except maybe for the cushion. "Bad" wads will have blown gas seal, burns/leakage, mangled top deck, torn up cushion leg. Without the petals they could go 25 to 30 yards and maybe further but if they separated from the slug they'll be out there.

I should also add that using Lee slugs in a 12 ga. smoothbore Ranchdog found that he got best accuracy using a solid hard card wad column. That is easy to try, just order 20 ga. waxed hard card wads and nitro card wads from BPI then make up a wad column to give good crimp height. That and paper wrapping or Mylar or Teflon wrap may solve your accuracy problems. You shouldn't have to fill the HB cavity if you use all hard card and nitro card wads. You should use soft lead though so the slug will swell to fill the bore.

It may take some work to get accuracy and maybe even better to buy a different mould. I never did get good accuracy from my 12 ga. Lyman Foster slugs. That and the fact the mould is horrible to cast with ended my interest with it. Slugs from my home made moulds, round balls and my modified Lee slugs give much better accuracy. Unfortunately Lee doesn't make a 20 ga. slug mould.

Longbow

[EMC45]

I definitely appreciate all the suggestions so far. I am going to put my calipers on a slug and also see what choke is tightest for it.

These slugs are cast from clip-on WWs. They are super soft and look great. I want them to work.

This gun with IC choke will make all shots touch off bags at 50y with Remington Slugger 20ga slugs. I would like to get kind of close to that.

[longbow]

I have found that factory Foster slug loads of several brands are quite accurate from my smoothbores but home cast and loaded Fosters not so much! Especially my Lyman Foster slugs.

I have had better accuracy, and some pretty good, from my home made moulds and from round balls.

I believe that the wad column is a big reason for good factory Foster slug accuracy. Most I've seen use a hard card wad column not a plastic cushion leg and those that do have cushion legs are much beefier than shot wads.

ACWW is much harder than pure lead so won't likely expand to bore diameter.

If you are using ACWW I'd suggest paper patching to bore diameter and using a hard card wad column or at least filling the cavity with hot melt glue if using the plastic wad with petals cut off. I'd also use the most open coke you have. Cylinder bore would be best but I/C or model should work. Full choke might be a bit much for filled ACWW slug to squeeze through.

Longbow

[EMC45]

I will add that I use the Lee KeyDrive 1oz for the 12ga and it shoots GREAT.

[longbow]

Yes, I have loaded and shot both the 1 oz. and 7/8 oz. Lee 12 ga. slugs. Both shoot reasonably well for me. I have also modified the mould to add a post with screw hole for attached wad. That is looking even better.

But Lee doesn't make a 20 ga. version. I read that they tried but didn't get good results with the 20 ga. version so didn't make moulds available.

I can't imagine that a scaled down version of the 12 ga. slug wouldn't work but...?

[EMC45]

I had the full choke in my 20ga. I swapped it out for IC and I'm going to try it out. Not sure why or when I changed it out, but I may put a few through it tomorrow.

[W.R.Buchanan]

How about we just leave the petals on the wad and try that? Bet it will work better than cutting them off.?

Pretty much all the regular slugs we shoot are designed to be loaded into a Standard Trap Load IE: open crimp, dump out shot, replace with slug, close crimp. Done.

I'd try that before going any deeper into this. Lots of other things you can try to improve fit, and fit is key to good slug performance in Smooth Bores.

Can't remember who said that?

Randy

[longbow]

Randy:

Not quite sure but I suspect the Lyman 20 ga. Foster suffers from the same design flaw as the 12 ga. Lyman Foster slug... too small for the bore and too big to fit in shotcup...

Okay, why speculate? I just looked it up. 20 ga. nominal bore is 0.615" and the Lyman 20 ga. mould is listed as casting 0.605" diameter so 0.010" undersize. Not as bad as the 12 ga. mould (mine casts at 0.705") which runs at least 0.024" undersize.

However, 0.010" undersize is still a rattle fit to bore.

To fit into a shotcup which runs about 0.575" ID he'd have to size down 0.030". Might be doable with soft lead but not likely with wheelweights.

I tried sizing down my Lee slugs to remove taper from 0.685" to 0.665" but they broke up. I managed to size them from 0.685" to 0.675" successfully so 0.010". Soft lead wouldn't crack up because it doesn't work harden much.

My experience anyway.

Longbow

[EMC45]

How about we just leave the petals on the wad and try that? Bet it will work better than cutting them off.?

Pretty much all the regular slugs we shoot are designed to be loaded into a Standard Trap Load IE: open crimp, dump out shot, replace with slug, close crimp. Done.

I'd try that before going any deeper into this. Lots of other things you can try to improve fit, and fit is key to good slug performance in Smooth Bores.

Can't remember who said that?

Randy

They won't fit in the hull with the petals still on. The slug won't even "bottom out" on the wad.

[EMC45]

Randy:

Not quite sure but I suspect the Lyman 20 ga. Foster suffers from the same design flaw as the 12 ga. Lyman Foster slug... too small for the bore and too big to fit in shotcup...

Okay, why speculate? I just looked it up. 20 ga. nominal bore is 0.615" and the Lyman 20 ga. mould is listed as casting 0.605" diameter so 0.010" undersize. Not as bad as the 12 ga. mould (mine casts at 0.705") which runs at least 0.024" undersize.

However, 0.010" undersize is still a rattle fit to bore.

To fit into a shotcup which runs about 0.575" ID he'd have to size down 0.030". Might be doable with soft lead but not likely with wheelweights.

I tried sizing down my Lee slugs to remove taper from 0.685" to 0.665" but they broke up. I managed to size them from 0.685" to 0.675" successfully so 0.010". Soft lead wouldn't crack up because it doesn't work harden much.

My experience anyway.

Longbow

Yup. I put the caliper on them the other night and they came in at .607.

[EMC45]

I shot 3 more slugs at 30y yesterday through the IC. 10in group. I'm gonna break down the remaining shells for powder and primers and go from there. I'm certainly not gonna chase my tail with this one. I still have some Sluggers that shoot like a rifle.

I don't really hunt anymore, so this is just a project for me.

[longbow]

Not sure if you have access to a lathe or not but making a simple push out mould like the old Ideal cylindrical moulds is pretty easy and you can bore to suit the guns bore diameter. If you want to know more about this key me know.

Alternately there are some Russian moulds available that use screw in wads. They make a bore size Foster in 12 ga. but not 20 ga.
As mentioned, round balls can produce pretty impressive accuracy out to 50 or 60 yards from smoothbore. Lee makes some round ball moulds that suit both use in wads at 0.575" or you can get a bite size mould of 0.615" or likely better 0.620" (or any diameter you want) at Ball Moulds:

https://www.ballmoulds.com/

I wouldn't be shooting a b iui re diameter ball through a choke tighter than I/C or maybe modified though. Best results will likely come with cylinder bore or I/C whether the ball is in a wad or bore size.

Paper patching may also improve accuracy with the slug you have and is pretty easy to do.

Beyond that you are looking at a pretty slim section of 20 ga. moulds that are available for smoothbore.

Longbow

[EMC45]

Next step is to call BPI and see what hull they may recommend.

[longbow]

Did you recover any wads from your last shooting session? If so what did they look like?

[megasupermagnum]

I personally would just forget about the Lyman foster slug. Unless you can find, or make a swaging die for them, they are useless. A .607" bullet is never going to shoot good in a .615"-.620" bore. There are too many better options to mess around with something like this, again, unless you want to get into swaging.

[Blood Trail]

I used CB waa20 clones for this:







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