12GA FH Slug Tester --

[hubel458]

Picture of fellows at Vestals Gunsmithing test firing 585 HE


they built for a guy. They got 750 gr to almost 2800 from


ultra short barrel, not a full load . A regular barrel would be


over 2900, 14000 ft lbs with full load..









Picture of our 375 HE cases, with little 378 WEA on left.


Middle case is with 330 gr, right case is 400gr bullet.







Here is picture of out 375HE testgun, in heavy t-hole stock.


So far 340 gr to 3700 and 360gr 3600.







Next 416 HE target case, these run through the hydro-die,


test gun done,will complete testing soon, to confirm specs.


When specs set, info will be sent to reamer guys


Soon will have 408 HE with specs set up also, for guys,


Smaller case 416s and 408s can be reamed out for


our bigger case .Ed

[hubel458]

Anyone wanting to build 4 bore I got barrel to sell, 300 bucks,all

chambered for ours and Owen's 4 bore case. Pm if interested.

Ang I know guy who has cases and loading deal to sell.Ed

[hubel458]

Here is picture of a brake on 12ga FH with real hot loaded
hollowbase lead slug, brake needed more clearance
for the expanding slug.







Here is the before and after of 375 HE cases
necked, 2 on left, and then formed in hydro die... Ed







Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left we are experimenting
with, going to see if we can make the ultimate 416 ELR case.
Can be 3.60" to 4.00" long, a long one pictured.
Holds over 280 gr ball powder under bullet. The
3.6" case can hold about 250gr under bullet.. In picture,
1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 He, 4th 378 WEA.


416 HSM will get 400gr to 4100 plus without needing BMG action,
470 gr 3800 plus , it may be the ultimate target, singleshot 416..
Case will work in fat bolt actions, with heavy enough barrel
to have good, milder, barrel harmonics and be under 50 lbs.
A lot of the 2 mile type shoots are adopting 50lb limit.





Here is picture of the 416 HSM fireformed once,
next to bmg case we make it from and as we
improve wildcatting process next few weeks
some specs may make small changes, now from
base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed..









Manson has 416 HE and 408 HE prints, as well as 375 HE
He can also make you a resize die reamer from that info.
We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, ,
Going to do lot more cases for these 2 sizes,
PM or email. ph 989-644-5228..Ed

[Hogtamer]

Ed, to sort of get back to original topic for a post, so e of us would really like to have access to the 12 ga sabots that you had made a couple of years ago. Those showed great promise for anyone with a rifled 12 ga. Uncle Dino can custom make a bullet that fits perfectly but we gotta have sabots. What are our prospects for a run of a couple thousand from whoever molded those for you?

[uncle dino]

I would like some also...d

[jmort]

I have them ready to go, the Hubel 575 Sabots.
3 moves in 18 months got me way behind on this.
I can get them out. I owe Ed some as well. So I guess it's go time.
Why don't we start a seperate group buy thread and in the meantime I can get them out to Uncle Dino et al who need them now for development
Shoot me a PM

[hubel458]

Yep get with John, as he took over getting them going

being he had time to work with mfg.Ed

[Hogtamer]

Did that and the sabot show will be at the range again! Lots of potential for long range performance with Uncle Dino custom swaging boolits to fit.

[cpileri]

Now theres a good idea!

[rolltide]

I have 2 NEF Ultra slug barrels that I need bored out for the 3.85" brass cases. Does someone rent a reamer? How or where do you guys get that work done? Also, what is the best source for 3.5" 12 ga plastic cases and 3.5" or 3.85" brass cases? RMC seems to only have the 3" cases now. I have some 50 BMG brass that I am going to try to swage rims onto, but this is all new to me, so I would like a source to purchase brass while I work on making my cases. My goal is to make a double rifle using 500gr to 600gr 50 cal bullets, that I swage myself using 308 brass for jackets, in 12ga sabots to duplicate 505 Gibbs ballistics (about 2100 to 2300 FPS). I plan to use this double as a stopping rifle for shots out to max 50 to 75 yards.

[hubel458]

You can buy reamer at ptg or jgs I think.

Bertram brass in AUS has drawn 12ga FH cases, ready to load,no need to make them

and cheaper than making them. And stronger than swaging the rims.Ed

[rolltide]

Ed, thanks for the response.

Buying them at about $150 is a little steep for single use. I found I can rent one at 4D Reamer Rentals for $35. I will probably use it on my Mossberg 500 slug gun as well. I could use it as a single shot 12 ga FH followed by 3" shells from the magazine.

Bertram has not answered emails. But I get BMG brass for about 35 cents each, and making the swaging dies myself, so I am going to give that a try. Swaged on rims should be a little stronger than the turned ones.

I really appreciate your ground breaking work in developing and sharing the 12 ga FH. I will keep you posted on my double rifle 12ga FH project if it actually comes to fruition. Just on the drawing board right now. I have the guns and barrels now, it is time to start solving design issues. and working my way to the end.

Thanks again for your great ideas and sharing them.

[Hogtamer]

jmort, sent you a pm.

[hubel458]

Guys asking about strong economical bolt gun to use for 28ga and
410 ga and 32ga with brass cases and higher pressures than plastic cases.
They can use a MN bolt action, here is pic of one with
our 585 case in the action.Guys can get Magtech brass cases or have
RMC make them....Guys can make 32ga case from 500 NE,
410s from 9.3 x 74 brass, etc..



Here is picture of our 416 HSM case sectioned next to original
BMG case on the right sectioned, to show that we still have
enough thickness in the sides to handle high pressure,
in a case with 310 gr capacity..We are getting the wildcatting
work set up so we can do at least hundred a month.
We have lots of 585s, 375HEs, 416 HEs, 408 HEs.....
And working toward getting 416 HSMs in big numbers.



Here's comparison of 416 target cases, 1st 416 HE, have whole bunch.
Second is model of what I'd have made on medium machine, if I could,
the 416 HE Long. It has capacity of 230gr..
Third is our 416 HSM which we are working on making by wildcatting bmg
cases, And if had run long cases, make longer 375 HE necking down 416 ..

[ohnomrbillk]

Ed

Does anyone make a tighter twist rifled 12 gauge barrel than Pac-nor?

I'm looking to push a heavy slug at 1050 fps or a little less.

I'm thinking the mag tech brass cases with a big slug loaded Locke a straight wall revolver case might just work.

I'm planning on using a bolt action like the savage.

Your input would be appreciated

[hubel458]

Pacnor made us 1 to 20 twist, I know of no faster ones.. Ed

[hubel458]

The 12ga FH case now is in the new COTW book on
last page in the wildcat section, I think page 324.
They gave good credit to Rob for the idea of that case....


The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,

has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,

on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr.. Ed..




Shooters talking more now; short, fat cases sticking, pockets not lasting as expected.
Trying to get best speeds the things raising pressures are bad case proportions, too fast of
powders, and the debth of the bullet into the powder space, as shown in the picture below..
My 375, 416, etc testing, bullets loaded like bottom one, in longer freebore....Ed.

[hubel458]

Here is case measurements for our 416 HE target case
made from our 585 HE big belted case. Ed




Here is picture of 375 HE left, 416 HE next, 416 HSM right..




Here, tentative specs, 416 HSM case we are doing from bmg brass,





A 375 HE, with Lawton action, bunch being done with those .....

[ohnomrbillk]

Bertram brass in AUS has drawn 12ga FH cases, ready to load,no need to make them

and cheaper than making them. And stronger than swaging the rims.Ed

Where do you buy these cases?

[hubel458]

Bertram in Australia

b.bertram1@bigpond.com