Bee's Wax, White, Yellow and Dark: Performance

[Hip's Ax]

I've read that white BW is processed and bleached, Yellow I guess is "normal" and the dark BW is from older combs. Is there any difference in performance with respect to using it in a bullet lube? Is one better than the other?

[Lloyd Smale]

shouldnt matter a bit the wax is just a carrier for the lube and isnt a lube itself.

[StarMetal]

Here's what bees was is:

Myricyl Palmitate 23%
Myricyl Cerotate 12
Myricyl Hypogaete 12
Ceryl Hydroxypalmitate 8-9
Free Cerotic Acid 4
Other Free Acids 8
Hydrocarbons 10.5 - 13.5


Make your own opinions as to why it's used in making BP lubes and whether it's a lubricate on it's own or not.

Joe

[Catshooter]

Yea StarMetal, I can sure form opinions as to whether bee's wax is a lubricant from that list of chemicals.


To try to answer the mans question, from the way it feels in between my fingers I'd say it does play a part in lubrication. Don't you wax the bottoms of drawers to lube 'em?


Cat

[StarMetal]

Well the chemicals were placed because I think they give an idea, at least for me, why beeswax is part of alot of BP lube formulas.

We were taught at the oil refinery that waxes can be very good lubricant, but do to their hardness when cold, they aren't ideal.

Joe

[357maximum]

I have used some free ugly beeswax that ranged anywhere from brown to almost green, I melted it and filtered it through worn out t-shirt material. It was ugly stuff and some of it even had form wire in it. But after filtering it was clean, still ugly, but clean. It worked just as good as the purdy yellow stuff, plus it was free. A little liquid candle dye and no one would know...

Yes, beeswax is a lubricant (in my eyes), but as already scientifffficccallly pointed out it is brittle, that is why all recipes have an oil of some sort.

[Dale53]

The original work done by E.H. Harrison of the NRA that resulted in the NRA Formula 50/50 Beeswax and Alox 2138F bullet lube specifically stated that "Pure natural beeswax" be used. They rejected bleached bees wax. The dirty stuff is just straight from the hives and DOES need to be filtered ( I have around 150 lbs) of the dirty stuff sitting in my utility barn awaiting filtering. It is full of all kinds of bee parts and dirt of all types.

I will melt it in a monster double boiler and filter it through several thicknesses of cheese cloth. It will then be "Pure Natural Beeswax" as there will have been NO chemical alteration.

FWIW
Dale53

[trooperdan]

I haven't tried this and doubless you all may already know about this but it made sense to me when I heard it so I'll share.

There are a couple of ways to clean beeswax; put the pieces in a coarse cloth bag such as burlap, put in a container of water and heat it up. The wax will melt, escape from the bag and solidify upon the water upon cooling.

A variation is just heat the wax with water, melt and cool. The trash will sink through the wax and settle into the water or just beneath the wax upon cooling and hardning.

[alamogunr]

I haven't tried this and doubless you all may already know about this but it made sense to me when I heard it so I'll share.

There are a couple of ways to clean beeswax; put the pieces in a coarse cloth bag such as burlap, put in a container of water and heat it up. The wax will melt, escape from the bag and solidify upon the water upon cooling.

A variation is just heat the wax with water, melt and cool. The trash will sink through the wax and settle into the water or just beneath the wax upon cooling and hardning.

I've used the second method and it works pretty well. I usually melted the wax in the evening and let it set overnite. If your container has straight sides, it can be challenging to get the cooled wax out. Once out, just scrape all the crud off the bottom of the plug of wax. Not much of the crud stays in the water that I could tell.
I did notice when I remelted in a double boiler to pour into small loaf pans that there was some dirt(almost negligible) in the bottom of the pan after I poured off the melted wax.

[targetshootr]

I just bought a lb of bleached to mix with some soft sticks that were too messy. Sounds like it needs to be swapped for natural but did they give a reason for rejecting bleached?

[Dale53]

Apparently, the chemical changes that occur through bleaching were considered detrimental. Pure Natural should be less expensive, also (just like free ranging chickens should be less expensive - NOT! ).

Dale53

[Hip's Ax]

Amazing, Thanks for the replies. How some soft silver metal and a little wax and oil could draw such a diverse, intellegent and resourceful group of people together just escapes me.

[Bad Flynch]

Years ago, in its landmark research on cast bullet shooting, the NRA found that white (bleached) beeswax, when used as bullet lube, was not as good as yellow (unbleached) beeswax.

However, that might only apply to the conditions of their research; one never knows until it is tried under different conditions and the results carefully recorded and reported. It may be that the results only apply to beeswax mixed with Alox 2138F and not to other mixes. It may apply universally, and unless tested and carefully compared under like conditions, we may never know.

It is difficult for me to imagine that the darker and less pure forms would be inferior.

[Bullshop]

I talked to a bee man about this when I went to buy wax. They sold white refined and yellow pure. He told me the big difference is that the white which they sold for pharmisuiticles has had the natural glue removed. He had a name for the glue but I cant remember it. I use only the yellow pure because I like the way it stays where you want it. I have dug boolits out of dirt piles and logs and they still have lube in the grooves. I dont like the idea of lube being flung off in flight changing the ballance of the bullet even if it only happens in my mind. I think it may also have the effect of mantaining a more consistant bore condition. Maybe all just in my head but thems the reasons I use only the unrefined yellow wax in all my lubes.
BIC/BS

[StarMetal]

Dan,

The weight of the lube flying off a bullet in relation to the bullet mass would be like if you put strip of duck tape on a car tire say about 2-3 inches long. Do you think that would affect the balance of the tire? I don't. I doubt lube flying off a bullet is going to affect it noticeably. The say shooting while it's raining doesn't affect a bullet much. Why would lube flying off? Just my opinion. Yes I would rather it all stay one because that's were I put it.

Joe

[Bullshop]

Hi Joe
Haven't heard from you in a while. Hope all is well! OK remember I said even if its just in my mind. Ya know how sometimes little things just bug ya but they dont make any real difference. Kinda like my spelling and puncuation how it just bugs some folks so they think I should use some computer speller for ta correct me but it realy dont make any difference cause it dont change what I have to say.
So there ya go the thought of it slinging off just bugs me in the same kinda way so I want to keep the glue in my wax even if it dont make any difference. Anyway refined just dont sound good to me. Like refined white flour they take all the good stuff out. Why bother good ol whole wheet bread is best just the way God made it. Same goes for bee wax he already made it perfect so why change it.
Just my thoughts so dont nobody get yer feathers ruffled.
BIC/BS

[alamogunr]

After posting above, I got curious about the surplus beeswax I bought from the gentleman in Nevada. I hadn't opened the box since I had about 25-30 lbs from other sources. The surplus wax is somewhat light yellow where the other I have is darker brown and smells good. Is the surplus wax bleached? I iknow others on this forum bought that wax as well. What is your experience? Is it ok to use?
John

[felix]

If the wax mixes well and does not allow other additives to drip out, then the wax is good to go. The color is an indicator mostly, for our purposes anyway, of what the bees have been eating to make up the wax in the first place. Just clean the wax of debris as the best you can and then make the lube with it. ... felix

[Dale53]

My first foray into lube making required me to locate a beeswax source. It lead me to an old "honey handler" (bee keeper) who was so enthusiastic about his hobby that he was willing to talk to me for hours. I learned a great deal about bees and their wonderful wax and honey. As Felix states, the color of the beeswax (and honey) will vary from a very light color when they are feeding on clover to a deep dark reddish brown when they are feeding on other blossoms. The flavor also goes from a light elegant taste to a stronger more robust flavor of the darker honey (I don't eat the beeswax).

The supply of wax that I have is nearly black it is so dark. After I clean and filter it, it will be considerably lighter but still quite dark. It came from hives in Colorado.

All the best,
Dale

[floodgate]

Guys:

The "natural glue" Bullshop's contact mentioned is called "propolis"; it was used in making up specialty varnishes, and I read somewhere that it is thought to be the "secret" ingredient that made the Stradivarius violins sound so special.

floodgate