.310 Cadet Reloading 101, part 1

[curator]

Recent posts on another web forum claims that the fired 7.62X38 Nagant pistol case needs only shortening to perfectly fit the .310 Cadet chamber. Supposedly PPU is offering new brass for this size as well. This might be worth looking into for those who don't want to spend US$ 1.00 per case for brass that only lasts a few reloadings. I have 2 Cadet rifles, one original and one "rechambered" for .32-20. For the original, I trim .32-20 brass and thin the rim to .045". The altered one needs no brass alterations. I load both with the heeled CBE .320/120 boolits cast from ACWW and lube with LLA or 45-45-10. I never need to resize cases, just de-cap, reprime, add powder (4.5 grains of Unique) thumb start the boolit and shoot. Cases last almost forever and this load shoots to the original sights in my unaltered Cadet. In contrast, my expensive Bertram brass lasted about 5 loadings before cracking.

[gunnie]

There is a lot of conjecture round the circles re heeled over non-heeled. One of the posters on here advocates using non-heeled to get great accuracy. I'm heading his way this week-end and taking one of my 310's to trial and find out for myself.

Sat down in the reloading room today and shortened 20 Remington 32-20 cases for the Cadet with the deeper rim recess. Will be good to trial some reloads in it and see if this has resolved the problem with this rifle.

[barrabruce]

I did a chamber cast in mine.
Saved me a lot of guessing to what’s actually what.
I use heeled bullet.
But I also breach seat paper patched bullets as well.

I found the std documented case length in mine well short.
The barrel dimensions thou big are not surprising in mine.

Maybe why it was put aside and kept in good nick till I got it.
(Thank you for putting it in storage mode for me who ever you were)

If I had another I’d make the brass and bullet match that as well.

[Retired_Handloader]

As "Curator" has noted, the use of Nagant Revolver Brass Cases in the .310 Cadet, is growing. Using the Nagant cases eliminates the rim thinning, which is generally necessary on 32-20 cases. My Nagant brass functions 100% properly in my Cadet.

I obtain my new, unprimed 7.62X38R brass, from Graf. I trim my Nagant Revolver brass to 1.120". These Nagant cases come 1.442" in length, and will lengthen a bit after sizing. Having a nagant revolver, I can tell you that these cases are a bit shorter than the cases used with factory ammunition, which are approximately 1.520". Their use requires trimming more than .3" off.

I use a manual Wilson case trimmer. To save time, I saw off most of the excess, and then finish trim in the Wilson trimmer. I'm FL sizing prior to trimming. The FL sized Nagant case can now be held in a Wilson Case holder for the .32 S&W Long. My holder is the "Q-Type", that I'm using without the "locking pin". To some, this may seem like a difficult procedure, but it is not. The newly formed cases give every indication of long life.

For bullets, my "make-do" load is using a aloxed Speer 98 grain HBWC, seated ( in my rifle ) to a COAL of 1.335"and very light taper crimp by a Lyman .32 S&W L Taper crimp die. These HBWC's average .3135", and so are undersized, but with using relatively fast powders the hollow base expansion seems to seal well. At 25 yards, 3 rounds fired produce a single small hole. That is, a "hole", not a larger "cloverleaf". While determining the source of my soon-to-be-ordered heel bullet mould, these light loads suffice for now. I've had good luck with Tite-Group, 700X, Reddot and Bullseye. Unique will be next to try. Powder loads start at 2.0, and end at 3.0, without a filler. For those who like old infantry rifles, like me, the Speer HBWC sized to .310-.311" make really nice "cat-sneeze" loads out to 50 yards or so. I use it in all my .30 cal rifles, and 1" square TP Tissue filler to keep powder to rear.

I like the fully adjustable rear sight on my Cadet, but my old eyes deserve better. I attached a Williams Aperature Sight (very small one), using a piece of Double-sided tape, to the barrel just forward of the flat breech section. What a difference! My particular Williams Sight was made for a "Browning Auto-Loader" rifle, and has a slightly rounded base. The tape is advertised as holding something like 40 pounds per square inch. The sight will absolutely not fall off the rifle. Trim the tape around the sight base, and apply some black magic marker, and it will look like a gunsmith installed it. I would not be getting the accuracy this Cadet is capable of, if not for this Williams Peep sight...Lastly, With this peep sight I can develop loads that I know are accurate for when I revert back to the issue sights. With this Williams sight at its' lowest setting, a 6:00 hold hits 4" high at 25 yards, if I don't modify the front sight. Works well for load development, and that was my desire.

[john.k]

On the subject of rim thickness......the Australian military determined that any 32-20 rifle would work reliably with the MF made 310 rounds......and called in all the Model 92s and Savages in 32-20 to be used by the defence volunteers.......but they also claimed the Japs were using 22s(pea rifles) and had such weak eyesight they couldnt hit anything......

[barrabruce]

And my 0.325" groove barrel was gunna shoot them 0.316" jacketed bullets real good too.
If you waited till you could see the white of their eyes through their beer google glasses ‘; then aiming was not needed and the solid butt would have been useful for spraying teeth everywhere.

My grandfather must have felt real safe.

[Four Fingers of Death]

At the Infantry Museum in Singleton, I saw a 32/20 1892 Winchester that belonged to some Colonel. A Sargeant cook was a crack shot and after his duties were finished in the evening, he would borrow the little carbine and goo shoot some Germans before returning to his bunk for an early start next morning in the trench kitchen.

[Stephen Cohen]

At the Infantry Museum in Singleton, I saw a 32/20 1892 Winchester that belonged to some Colonel. A Sargeant cook was a crack shot and after his duties were finished in the evening, he would borrow the little carbine and goo shoot some Germans before returning to his bunk for an early start next morning in the trench kitchen.

That Singleton Museum had some wonderful Vietnam era firearms which proved too tempting to a soldier I knew of, his sticky fingers got him in some hot water as it seems pinching parts to reactivate an AK was frowned on by Police. I was surprised to see all those who earned the Victoria Cross had a wall to themselves, I found my mothers cousin Frank Partridge VC also there, I still remember her in tears the day he was killed in a car accident. Regards Stephen

[Four Fingers of Death]

That Singleton Museum had some wonderful Vietnam era firearms which proved too tempting to a soldier I knew of, his sticky fingers got him in some hot water as it seems pinching parts to reactivate an AK was frowned on by Police. I was surprised to see all those who earned the Victoria Cross had a wall to themselves, I found my mothers cousin Frank Partridge VC also there, I still remember her in tears the day he was killed in a car accident. Regards Stephen

My whole family was glued to the TV watching him and Barry Jones do Battle on Bob and Dolly Dyer's Quiz Show Pick a Box!

[Stephen Cohen]

My whole family was glued to the TV watching him and Barry Jones do Battle on Bob and Dolly Dyer's Quiz Show Pick a Box!

Yes seems we are somewhere in the same age group as I also remember Barry Jones beating him by one point and the whole final night was Barry Jones topics, I remember Barry had the nasty habit of asking for question to be repeated to give him more time to work out the answer. I understand Barry was a Rhodes man and Frank only went to 3rd class and was self taught by reading encyclopedia by lantern light. After Franks death the family drove to his home town and visited the new home he built for his wife and the old shack he and his dad lived in. Sorry for off topic folks but Frank was a brave man and earned the highest military award this country has to offer for bravery. Regards Stephen

[Rookandrabbit]

I read the Wikipedia entry on Frank John Partridge V.C. He was an exceptionally brave man.That generation were made of the Right Stuff. I have read the entries in the London Gazette for citations on awards for the Victoria Cross and Gallantry medals, words can not express what the men went through endured and accomplished.


I regret selling my .310 martini.......
Kind regards Rookandrabbit.

[gunnie]

Well the week-end was a success. I learnt a lot about casting projectiles suited to my particular rifles/chamberings.
We also trialed a few rounds of standard 310Cadet (BB brass) with a 120gn flat based projectile seated out so that it just engaged the rifling. This held the case back just far enough so that the firing pin would strike effectively. The rounds fired without incident & were accurate to boot! Lesson learned.

The load of choice was 4.5gn of AP70N under the 120gn flat base round nosed cast. Velocity is around 1200fps and it's a mild and accurate load. As long as you have a reasonable bore this load should prove to be worthwhile in your rifle.
We also loaded the same projectile and powder charge into the shortened 32-20 cases that I made up to suit the 'problem' Cadet with it's deeper rim recess. These too, functioned without any issues and were accurate.

So now I'm charge with enthusiasm and new knowledge to dive head first into the casting realm and working with cast projectiles in my rifles. Thanks BAW, you're a legend mate!

[gavernjones]

Hi, I am reloading my 310 cadet with 5g of AP70n with 125g projectiles and am also using Remington small rifle primers, about 1 in 10 won’t ignite properly so I need to recock it an then it will fire. Factory loads are not an issue, what primers are people using when reloading. Cheers


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[barrabruce]

Any of the small rifle primers in mine.
I have no issues.
Clean and Check the firing pin. Should be Roughly 45 thou.

Check head space between barrell and breach with a feeler gauge.
Add that to how far a case slides in for headspace.

I load mine so as the nose engraves the rifling.
I only partially neck size to load bullets.
This way the cases is fired formed and have no headspace issues after that.

Hope it helps.
I will fix my heeled mould one day.

[gavernjones]

Ok yep it has been through the gun smith and has very little wear in any of the components and is in excellent condition. Will double check he has checked all these. A friend of mine went to cci primers for this reason, well that’s what he thought and so far so good. Any other ideas are much appreciated. Thank you


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[barrabruce]

How thick are your rims?
Do they stick in past the outside of the extractor / breach face when chambered?
If the gun checks out o.k. Then it’s either the case rims too thin and the firing pin don’t reach it fully to engage the anvil in the primer or the spring is so weak it won’t work.Either that or the firing pin is being held back or is too short to reach for some reason.

[woodbutcher]

Most interesting thread.Just read the whole thing.Maybe,one of these years I will have the long green to purchase one of these sweet rifles.Sort of got hooked on Martinis many years ago when a friend of my Fathers let me shoot his Martini/Henry in 45/70.Now that was a fun afternoon.Saw a lot of really nice ones for sale,but never had the cash at the time,OR had cash and none were available.Ahh well,that`s like the old song says"That`s Life".Thanks to all for posting.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Ben_51004]

Wow, what a great thread! I've really enjoyed reading all the posts from the beginning. I have a Cadet, but didn't feel compelled to move that project to the front of the line... so much fun stuff to do since retirement. Now I want to get it out and running. I was particularly interested in the post about using the Nagant cases. Bullets still seem to be a problem... but RCBS still makes their Cadet mold offering. Thanks to you all for an entertaining evening, and for inspiration. All the best to you all!!

[M-Tecs]

Raising this one from the dead. I just picked on of these up. I've always wanted a full size one but this area is flooding with Khyber Pass fakes. I know this one is legit. Not sure if I am going to keep it in the 310 or rebarrel.

[Rapier]

Not sure if it is I am too lazy to make 310 brass or have a need to make a new Cadet, but were it me, I would re-barrel to 357 Super Mag. With rifle bullets, j or cast, the 357 SM fits for the Cadet "curve." It is accurate and unusual to boot. I have made two 357 SMs, so far, plus a 218 Bee, 222R, 225 Win, and a 30-20.
The 30-20 was to take advantage of a .308 barrel with 1-10 twist, plus most 32-20 dies come with a 30 cal ball or with sizer dies also.
This is the walnut 357 SM I did up.