12 ga paradox help ! Slug or RB loads.

[longbow]

Those are awfully nice looking loaded rounds and the gun as well.

I have been toying with the same idea myself but toy money is scarce so I am just dreaming at present.

It is nice to see someone building and making good progress. I will be very interested to see how this all turns out.

Keep up the good work!

Longbow

[missionary5155]

Good Evening
That is a nice Double setup. Sure beats my Fox B 12 guage in the sight department. The closest I got to a real rear sight was to remove a screw that anchored the rib at the chamber area and install a taller screw so as to sight through the screw slot using the origonal front bead. Worked sufficiently out to 35 yards for testing and was accurate enough to hit deer at 40 yards with Roundball.
But those sights would have made a real difference.. Have to put that on my next time up to Illinois project list.
Mike in Peru

[nitro450exp]

Thanks for the compliments.

Cheers
Nitro

[cajun shooter]

Nitro, I have been watching your thread and find it very interesting. I had and used the very same shotgun when I started in SASS. I shoot nothing but BP and the shape of the trigger guard would cut open my fingers at every match. It was so bad that I started taping up my hands before the match. I have a large supply of paper hulls if you wanted to try more in your quest. I have Fioochi and Federal both. I would send them at just the cost of shipping. Why don't you try using the roll crimp? That is all that I use when loading my hulls. I use my bench mounted drill press Later David

[nitro450exp]

Cajun

Were you shooting shot or slugs at your SASS matches ?
I have shot only factory slugs, and my own loaded slugs and round balls from this gun.
No trigger finger cuts or abbrasions.
My buddy did get a knot on his middle finger from one of the shooting sessions.

If I have any success with the paper hulls, I will take you up on your offer, but not untill I have some indication of success, Or it will just be more clutter in an already full gun room.

I am going to a DR (Double Rifle) shoot on the 24th so I need to get it shooting by then.

I will try a roll crimp eventually but need to order a crimping tool.

Thanks for the info.

Nitro

[nitro450exp]

Hello All,

Had a pretty good session at the range this weekend.

The brass shells with BPGS, 2 fibre wads, a nitrocard with SR4759, slug and an overshot card, were terrible.
I think it was the powder choice, lots of unburned powder.
I will try again with 800X.
I am determined to make them work.
I think I will switch to RB in them exclusively.

The paper hulls with Fed cut down wads, 2 nitro cards and paradox type crimp worked well.
The load was pretty consistent.
I will post target pictures and velocities later this week.
I think I have a solution for this load.
Leading was an issue, with the soft lead.
Hopefully the hard cast will be better, after sizing I think I will need to relube.

Very encouraging weekend.

Cheers
Nitro

[Greg5278]

The BPGS seals often blow through in slug loads. I have used them as per the BPI manual, but have not found them to be reliable. I use the X12X in it's place. I only have them fail if the pressure is way beyond normal operating range. That might help you a good bit. The OB12 is a good gas seal too, but needs to be used in tapered hulls, or blowby will be a problem.
Greg

[nitro450exp]

Greg

Recovered the seal, was intact but showed minimal engraving from the choke.
Also load was anemic at best 600 ~ 750 fps.
The cases were covered on the outside with unburned powder.

Did not see or feel this with the 800x.

Nitro

[Greg5278]

IMR 4759 works best with slugs 600 grains and heavier. It also needs s good roll crimp. Perhaps 4756 would be better suited to your purpose. It works well up to 650gr, but it5 too fast for 750gr slugs. Don't worry about choke engraving on the gas seals, only on the bullet.
I use the waxed .740" diameter cards from BPI to act as a second gas seal, and to help clean out fouling.
Greg

[JTCoyoté]

It's curious to see how this technology has finally come full circle.

Without batting an eye, Holland & Holland snatched up the patented Fosbery system in the late 19th century and gave it the name "Paradox" -- but why Paradox...? Could it be that the system has the unique ability, without any alteration, to pattern shot as well as a choked shotgun at any given range. Then crack the breech and grab a couple of solids from the other pocket and group high energy balls or slugs in a 5" circle at 100 paces... something a smooth bore gun couldn't come close to doing.

This is the "Paradox"... a 12 bore, (there were a few 8 bores made too...) that could easily take a goose on the wing at 50 yards in the morning... then drop a charging 1.5 ton water buffalo at 75 yards that afternoon. Jack Lott was fascinated by these guns in his later years...

We all have a Euro or Chinese coach gun that doesn't get used much, that can be fitted with choke tubes. Most of us have always wanted a decent quality double rifle. Well, knowing the "Paradox" why not go all the way and do the "permanent fix"...?

Why worry about fire tightening chokes and split barrels. All it will take is building a slow (1~ 48'' to 56") twist, deep grooved, (.012" to .015") "ratchet rifled" choke fitted exactly to your guns bores. They need to be a bit longer than usual to lengthen the barrels 3 to 4 inches so you can regulate the thing in the manner W. Ellis Brown describes in his book "Building Double Rifles on Shotgun Actions." Then you add a couple of rib extensions, a low profile flip up rear sight and a shallow ramped front bead -- Heat up a bit of Hi-Force-44 to sweat it all together... and... "Voila," a real Paradox!

JT