Modifying the Marlin 1894 for a longer cartridge OAL

[W.R.Buchanan]

The guns usually will shoot up to a 300 gr boolit if you run them fast enough. You can get accuracy at lower velocities with shorter boolits like 429244 at 260 gr. The ones that give the problems are the 315-330 gr LFN's. It is almost impossible to push those Boolits fast enough to stabilize them with a 1:38 twist barrel. The custom guns made by David Clay have 1:16 -1:18 twist barrels and modified lifters to accommodate cartridges of 1.75 OAL like Garrett Hammerheads which are loaded with 330 gr LBT LFN's, which are normally made for use in Ruger Super RedHawks.

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/44hammerheadplusp.html

Note that they claim 1400 fps from a 7.5" bbl. and 1435 ft lbs. That would be more like 18-1900 fps from a 20bbl carbine. Which puts it squarely in .45-70 territory.

These guns are effectively duplicating Marlin Guide Gun ballistics but with .44 Magnum cartridges instead of .45-70's.

I would be very happy with a 2.5" group at 100 yds. with a 300 gr boolit. I have that mould also but haven't shot any yet. It also has the two crimp grooves so you can load it short enough so it will function in these actions.

ImaShooter: not so much of a problem with the 357's but a completely different story with the .44's and .45's. The Meplats on those boolits are as big as a whole .357 boolit. The LBT .44 WFN's have a .340 meplat. I think the .45's are more like .360.

If you watch the cycle as the cartridge is being pushed forward when the lever is closed, the round is pinned up against the top of the receiver. It continues along until the front edge of the chamber directs it into the hole.. If the rounded edge of the boolit doesn't go in the hole then the edges of the boolit come in contact with the chamber mouth. This is where the hang up occurs. The sharp edges of the boolit (lead) get dug into by the sharp edges (steel) of mouth of the chamber.

It is common to chamfer the chambers on revolvers so that they load easier. You'd think that Marlin would chamfer the chamber on these guns to make them load easier. This could be done with a chambering reamer which has the chamfer or better yet a radius incorporated into the tool. It would cost exactly nothing to do. They grind their own reamers any way so making a step on it wouldn't be a big deal. It would just be slightly different than what they do now. IE: it would be an improvement to their process, which would produce a better gun, and cost them nothing to execute. Hell the machinist running the lathe turning the barrel threads and chambering it could even do it as a second op while he was waiting for the Lathe to finish the next bbl. with a piloted radius tool on a cordless drill or a Tee handle. This is a simple operation.

Randy

[bearcove]

The 45-70 comparison might be stretching a bit.

Load the 45-70 to max like the 44 is and it is not the same territory.

[TCLouis]

Mid month bump

[Char-Gar]

I did that same modification to my Marlin 1895 in 44 Magnum about 8 years ago and it works like a champ.

[W.R.Buchanan]

bearcove: the point was a .44 loaded hot is similar to a midrange .45-70. certainly not the other way around.

Randy

[bearcove]

OK If you shoot the 44 mag in a carbine you will get an increase of about 500 fps over a 4 inch barrel about 300 from your 7 1/2 inch Garrett data.

That means 1700 with a 330 gr bullet.

A trapdoor load @ 17000 CUP and a 330 grain bullet is 1700 fps.

Marlin loads which are on the light side of medium 25000cup 2050 fps.

I can get there with a 454 carbine or close

The note on the Garrett site also notes these are loaded to 43500cup which is 10% over max. might be a bit stiff for a rear locking lever.

I was just noting that I felt you were stretching a bit.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I always try to post with as much accuracy as I can back up, and maintain some margin of plausibility. All of these loads are **** Kickers and I would never shoot them unless I absolutely had to.

Actually the Marlin action is supposed to be fine with 43,500PSI, and Brian Pearce did and extensive article on loading the .44 to a variety of pressure levels for pistols.

A .45-70 loaded to 43,500PSI is a completely different animal, and with 400 gr Brass Solids at 2000+ fps will go clean thru anything know to man, and in any direction. There is no way you could get a .44 Magnum to this level no matter what you did. And I doubt anyone would like shooting a 7 lb. gun with any of the above mentioned loads more than once or twice.

The guns they were using were all David Clay modified 1894's with 18" barrels with 1:16 to 1:20 twist barrels. These guns were built specifically to use the Garrett Ammo, and other than being modified to swallow the longer Cartridge OAL, different barrels with tighter bores, and smoothed out, there were no other enhancements. One was for Brian Pearce and the other was for Ashley Emerson inventor of XS sights. Brian's was a Stainless take down, and I don't know about Emerson's gun other than it has a blued finish, as I have only seen pics and really couldn't tell. Brian's gun cost him $3600! and that was the good guy price.

Randy

[bearcove]

The 336 action is a strong action, the 1894 actions are very different. I don't know what they are "rated" at. I do know of 475 L being done on them.

But as you said the 45-70 will crank out more than most will want to hold on to. But then there is the 50 Alaskan, more better!

Problem I see is people are hotrodding pistol cartridges to try and do what is easy in a rifle cartridge. If you are an expert have fun, guns are neat toys.

The rifle is only a pound lighter, at most, and that isn't worth the effort for me. I wish my 1895 was 3 pounds heavier sometimes. LOL!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Oh boy, don't get me started on the 3 lbs heavier road. My 1894 CB .44 with 24" bbl. weighs 7 lbs 8 oz. My 1895 CB .45-70 with the 26" bbl. weighs 7lbs 2 oz! go figure?

I can shoot 300 gr boolits at about 1200 fps all day long. (25 gr of 5744). At 1500 fps (35 gr of 5744) I'm good for about 4-5 shots and then I'm pretty much done. Mind you, the gun has a 1" thick Pachmayr recoil pad too. The thing is simply too light for this cartridge.

It will be getting about 2+ lbs. of lead poured into the stock soon to bump the weight to 9.5-10 lbs,where the gun needs to be to shoot 400gr boolits more than twice in one setting.

I really like the gun but the wood they used on the stocks was about as dense as balsa. Maybe a new buttstock someday made from something that matters. That should help with the weight but it will still need supplemental lead as well.

The gun looks real nice and I refinished the stocks and added the pad. I am changing the Williams sight to a Lyman 66LA for better repeatability and I plan on using it for Cowboy Silhouette next year. The gun hangs on the barrel so well it will certainly make a great Silhouette rifle, and if I ever get to go to the Yukon for a moose it will be the gun going with me.

Randy

[bearcove]

I can say that I carry my 1895 in SE, SCentral, and SW Alaska, When I've shot the HEAVY loads cause I needed to. Never felt a thing. Adrenalin is a wonderful thing. IF you don't need a stopping rifle, not you specificly but others out there, WHY are you shooting one for fun?

THE ADRENALIN comes from the situation.

The 7lb thing is, 'cause the less pain to carry it, the more likely you'll have it when you need it.

That's why I sold my pre64 375 H&H 10.5 Lbs.

Sold it cheap and still hate that sell, amazing how $500 bucks you didn't need can bother you!

[JesterGrin_1]

How did all this start from a simple thread on Modifying the Marlin 1894 for a longer cartridge OAL?

We went from a worthwhile modification if one should need to do so depending on boolit selection to trying to see how close one can get to blowing something UP lol.


So back to the subject. When I had a Marlin 1894SS in .44 Mag I found the modification to be greatly helpful to enable me to use .44 Remington Brass and the Lee 310Gr RNFP/GC at the bottom crimp groove for a long OAL. The load was just a tad less than 44Man suggested which was Remington .44 Mag Brass with a CCI LPP (Not Magnum Primer) with 21.0Gr of W-296 powder and the Lee 310GR RNFP/GC with Lars BAC Lube and dipped for the heck of it one time in 45-45-10 and sized at .432 would give me right at 2 1/2" groups or a hair better at 100 yards with a 3x9 scope. Which is not bad for throwing rocks lol.

For a Hunting load the Lee 310 RNFP/GC was the most accurate hunting boolit I tried.

But as I mentioned had which means I was not happy with the accuracy of the Marlin 1894SS in .44 Mag or its repeatability which would range from as high as 3" down to 2 1/4 at 100 yards so I traded it off to someone that wanted it for closer in work and wanted something handy and in Stainless and I purchased a Marlin 1895GS in 45-70 that will give me 3/4" Groups at 100 yards. So it is a no brainer as to which one I feel is better.

[W.R.Buchanan]

We did a little off topic, but that is more because I am naturally blabby and can't help myself.

The mod is a simple one and a good one, as is Chamfering the Chamber Mouth.

The rest of what you can do to these guns pretty much comes under the heading of "Deburring."

Randy

[JesterGrin_1]

The rest of what you can do to these guns pretty much comes under the heading of "Deburring."

Randy

DeBurring heck with my last new purchase which was a Ruger from Lipsy's I needed side cutters and a file lol.