.45 ACP driving me nuts

[jonk]

Got a Rock Island .45. No matter what I do, it keeps leading.

Here's what I've tried:

3 different powders including Bullseye, Red Dot, and HS6, using start loads and working up to near max.

All with a Lee 200 gr SWC bullet. In THEORY this bullet fits the barrel well, dropping 1-2/1000 over groove size. I'm loading them as dropped.

Used LLA, Felix lube, and 50/50 lube.

Water dropped Wheelweights, aircooled wheelweights, and 50/50 soft lead and weights mixed.

Nope, they ALL lead.

So I lapped the bore, as I could see a few chatter marks on the cutting. It smoothed out nicely (so it looks).

Yesterday I shot the gun again. Fairly normal load, 200 gr SWC, 3.5 gr Bullseye, ACWW, LLA.

Not only did it still lead, it leaded horribly. Big chunks of ironed on lead the size of a flattened pea were coming out of the barrel. Equally bad at the chamber end and at the muzzle, and all in between.

I'm at a loss here. I'm thinking of ordering a new barrel (used?) and saving this one for jacketed.

[HeavyMetal]

I feel your pain!

About 3 years ago one of the guys in our service dept bought a 45 auto, a Dan Wesson I belive, and put some rounds through it and said it was leaded so badly he couldn't get the lead out!

He brought me the pistol and I spent a week end with it cleaning the bore.

Trust me it was an ugly deal!

After I got the lead out I was able to see the bore and it looked like a corn cob after dinner!

This was an incediblely poor job of machineing so much so that I instantly suggested he contact the maker, or better yet, just spring for a new BarSto and be done with it.

A few months latter he went to work for the LA fire dept and I never did find out what he did about that barrel.

Clean the snot out of yours and see if some one local has a good bore scope to really examine the rifling and bore of your barrel.

Replacement will depend on many things but having the proof before you ask for anything is a good place to start.

If this is a used gun the same suggestion I gave the other guy applies here as well, go buy a new barrel!

[jonk]

I bought it brand new. For what I paid for it I wasn't unhappy, I know what it looked like unfired. Just had a few little rough marks near the muzzle that I thought might contribute to leading.

Shoots jacketed great, just not cast.

[Lloyd Smale]

Id tell you to try harder but if it is actually that bad id say your barrel is junk.

[Russel Nash]

Okay everbody....

say it with me...

Did ya slug the bore?

Oh...yeah...

And what size diameter are the boolits, actually?

[Russel Nash]

Whhhoooopppsss!!!

Sorry...I just re-read the Original Post (OP) and saw where it says they are half a thousandth over groove diameter.

Well...I still gotta ask...something like...

Are the boolits actually round?

I guess it could be theoretically that in one direction the boolit measures .452", but 90 degrees to that, it could measuring at .453" or .454"

Just throwing that out there as a possible idea.

[BABore]

Also look to your sizing, expander, and crimp dies. Are you using a boolit of proper diameter, then having it sized down because of alloy and an undersized expander? Or is your crimp die reducing the boolit diameter as the Lee FCD will sometimes do as it irons the case out. Load up a dummy, then slit the case down each side with a Dremel. This allows you to measure the boolit without disturbing it too much. Pounding one out with an inertia hammer will reduce the diameter when it passes through the crimp area.

[inuhbad]

How many rounds are you firing prior to getting any leading problems?

Honestly, I think you might STILL be having a problem because of the mold. I've replaced my Lee 45 moulds with Lyman 2-Cavs for my 45, and they've been GREAT. Virtually ZERO leading. I only get leading maybe 2-3 times a year!

I usually don't see signs of leading until I've fired over ~300 rounds through the gun without cleaning!

In the event that I DO get leading, it's not a big deal - I just remove the 1911 barrel, drop it into a jar of acetone for ~5 minutes, and run a bronze bore brush through a few times. The leading comes out quickly & easily after one or two short dunks in acetone. Then some brushing, and patches with Hoppes 9.

You state that you're using a LEE mold, but WHICH precise lee mold are you using?
Is it a Lee mold for ALOX lube, or a more traditional lube bullet design?
What sizing/lubing press & die diameters are you using to size your boolits?

These are all potential influencing factors...

[jonk]

As I said- a Lee 200gr SWC. It's a 6 cavity conventional design.

As I said- I'm using them as cast and the bullet measures 1-2/1000 over groove diameter, depending on what cavity in the mold it comes out of. Bore measures .453 across the grooves, bullets are dropping .454-5.

Given proper diameter fit I can't think that the BRAND of bullet mold will make a difference at all. Whether that bullet shoots accurately or not is another matter.

I get leading after 10-15 rounds.

I do like the idea of looking at after-seated size. If the dies aren't expanding the brass enough that could well be the issue.

Not using the FCD.

[Mk42gunner]

Sounds like a bad barrel to me.

Maybe see if you can try a different bullet design, although your sizes seem to be on the large side for a .45 ACP.


Robert

[KCSO]

I have a RIA and have sold or handled about 20 more. It seems like about every 10-12 guns one will have a rough bore. I would order up a new barrel for cast and be dont with it but you could just shoot about 2000 jacketed slugs and then give it another try.

[lead4me]

I see that you have stated 1-2/1000 over? Are you posting .0005 over or .001 to .002 over? Big difference, I am trying to help a buddy solve this same problem in a kimber 1911 and am curious to see what develops.

[lead4me]

See that you already answered my question. Pays to read carefully instead of skimming. Pls carry on.

[243winxb]

Size your bullets to .452" & apply 50/50 alox/bees wax. I am guessing your groove measurement is faulty.

[Russel Nash]

I'm wondering how you're measuring to the half thou

Just curious...

I think our OP said he has tried different lubes, right?

I would give the Johnson Paste Wax a try.

My money is still on the fact that bullets aren't perfectly concentric.

That's where having a sizer of some sort comes in handy.

Do you have any body else's home cast lead boolits you could try?

[BABore]

I'm wondering how you're measuring to the half thou

Just curious...

I think our OP said he has tried different lubes, right?

I would give the Johnson Paste Wax a try.

My money is still on the fact that bullets aren't perfectly concentric.

That's where having a sizer of some sort comes in handy.

Do you have any body else's home cast lead boolits you could try?

The average digital caliper will measure to 0.0005". A caliper is not the best instrument


to measure a round though. A decent micrometer will measure down to 0.0001" and is perfect for boolits.

[StarMetal]

The way I read jonk's measurement is he's going one thousandth to two thousandths over the groove diameter. That would be .001 to .002.

With that said I think you have a really oversized groove diameter for 45 acp in a 1911. I think as others have stated that you have a bad barrel. I agree 100 percent with KSCO, put a good barrel or good match barrel in it and be finished with it. I always measure and modify my expander ball when I get a new die set. If the case is work hardened enough it will sometimes size the bullet down some especially if the alloy is on the soft side. If you're sizing that .001 to .002 over groove which you stated as .453 we're looking at bullets at .454 to .455. I know none of my 45 acp's will accept a cartridge with a bullet that fat.

Get a new barrel, or call the manufacture and talk to them. Just my two pennies.

[caillouetr9981]

Good Bullet - Bad Barrel.

Get a new barrel for this puppy as soon as you can.

Also, if you can, try mixing 1-part 50/50 Plumbers Lead (Solder) with 9-parts WW. Then, lube them with Rooster Red (you'll need to get a heating element, if you don't already have one, but it is definitely worth it).

[inuhbad]

Good Bullet - Bad Barrel.

Get a new barrel for this puppy as soon as you can.

Also, if you can, try mixing 1-part 50/50 Plumbers Lead (Solder) with 9-parts WW. Then, lube them with Rooster Red (you'll need to get a heating element, if you don't already have one, but it is definitely worth it).

I also recently switched to Rooster Lube, and love it!

MUCH better than the others I've used (Lyman, RCBS, and Beeswax Homelube).

[Russel Nash]

I've been a millwright now for 10...11 years...setting steam turbines to so many odd thousandths.

I think the last job I was on honing out where two rotors got coupled together we used an "intra-mike" that was good to 10 thousandths.

And I think I have read enough Starret "mikes" in my day...maybe my eyesight is going...especially trying to readd gray on gray tick marks...but really, I only care about the thousandth....or the 3rd place to the right of the decimal.... 0.001"

You must have one of those fancy mikes that has the odometer like read out built into it.

Or it's digital.