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Thread: Revolver shot loads that WORK!

  1. #81
    Boolit Master


    thx997303's Avatar
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    Make it from a bolt and a properly sized case cut off into a collar.

    I used a file and a dremel to make mine.
    "I have enough ammo and guns to shoot my way into Nevada." - California resident.

  2. #82
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    Alrighty then, I think it's about time to speed up production.

    I'm thinking of making a setup that will allow me to vacuform these cups.

    The idea is to make a gang mold, figuring about two rows of six, that is the exact size and shape you need for the shot cup.

    The mold is placed over a vacuum source, and the plastic is heated inside of a frame, then pressed over the mold. Once the frame seals, the plastic is sucked down over the mold, giving precise detail.

    I'll let you know how things go as I build the thing.
    "I have enough ammo and guns to shoot my way into Nevada." - California resident.

  3. #83
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    I don't know if this will help, but let me relate some of my developmental experiences, might help you as you plan your design and method. When I first started playing around with the plastic shot cups, I made a forming set out of a stainless-steel bushing and a piece of rod. The idea was to heat a square piece of milk jug to the right temperature, then place it over the bushing and stretch it down in there with the rod. Even after chamfering the bushing considerably it still wouldn't work because the milk jug has to be stretched too much, and ends up thin as a ziplock baggie in places. Then I tried to melt milk jug plastic gently to get a quantity of liquid I could pour in the bushing and pressure form with the same rod, but the stuff cooled too fast. That was how I came up with the idea I posted here. Once I learned that the plastic could be melted and formed to an extent without becoming brittle I knew I could form bases, but still needed to use unmelted plastic for the sides. It kind of evolved into this method which I still have yet to improve upon, but I certainly encourage you to do so, keep us posted.

    Gear

  4. #84
    Boolit Master nanuk's Avatar
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    Gear, another application I see here is close range grouse gun with a muzzleloading rifle

    just make them up inside copper tubing or something, to simulate a round, then pull them out after completion.

    a wrap of cellophane tape would hold the slits together enough for handleing, then just powder and ram one home. you would have to experiment to get the size right for a "Snug" fit.
    Perhaps a long taper punch to taper the tube, with a press fit endcap to you could push it out. then just make the tube long enough for the whole thing.
    You could end up with a sealed shot cup.

    for extra strength, so you think alternating 2/3 height slits, say two from bottom up at 12, and 6 oclock and two at 3 and 9 from top down? no tape needed, but would still allow fragmenting outside of barrel?

  5. #85
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    Nanuk, that could certainly be tried, only one way to know how it would work. The shot cups are no problem to make "stand alone" and sealed on both ends, just make one more tool for holding the cup during shot filling and sealing the final end. Several shock-absorbing wads would, of course, be needed for this since black powder is really tough on shot. The wads could be glued in a stack to the back of the shot cup with hot glue or super glue to simplify reloads in the field. The finished shotcup/wad assemblies could be carried stacked up in those fancy tubes sometimes used for cigars. Just a thought.

    Gear

  6. #86
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    I actually worked on the 45-70 shot loads specifically for a close range grouse load that is legal in my state.

    Needless to say, it was a success.

    Now I just gotta shoot me some grouse with em.
    "I have enough ammo and guns to shoot my way into Nevada." - California resident.

  7. #87
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    I tried .410 shotcups in 45-70..
    Beefed up the base with duct tape and used about that much shots that fitted to .410 shotcup.
    I used VV:s N110 powder.. Dont remember the amount now..
    My impression was that it was too slow for the purpose..
    Also.. I should propably make a some kind of separate cup to "simulate" the bullet, as I had to feed the cartridges manually to the chamber of my GG.
    .410 cups are handy, as one could use them in calibers like .44 and .45 and maybe they fit also to .41..?

    S

  8. #88
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    .410 cups might work in the .41 Magnum and do, sort of, work in a .44 Magnum, but are a waste of time in the .45 calibers. You would be better off using two gas checks and a roll crimp like most people do, the bore leading will be the same and the patterns will blow just as badly.

    Gear

  9. #89
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    Was just thinking about this today.

    I am very glad I posted my load and how much shot I got in the case. I forgot to write it down.

    Gotta get on the vacuforming experimentation.
    "I have enough ammo and guns to shoot my way into Nevada." - California resident.

  10. #90
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    I tried my first attempt at vacuforming today.

    So far, my observations are this.

    The base of the shotcup formed perfectly. Nominal thickness and beautiful.

    Unfortunately, since I didn't secure the mold properly, it fell over.

    I was able to gather some more useful data though.

    The sides are uniformly .008" thick. I'm curious as to whether this thinner HDPE will stand up to the rifling upon firing.

    I'll post more as I progress.

    Honestly it seems that a double layer of HDPE (milk jugs) may give the results I want.
    "I have enough ammo and guns to shoot my way into Nevada." - California resident.

  11. #91
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    Just tried another run using the secured mold this time, and double thickness of plastic.

    The mold for 45-70 is too long and straight, I'm guessing that the method exactly as I'm doing it now, may work for 357 mag, but not 45-70.

    The base is extremely uniform in it's shape and thickness using this method.

    I cut the base in half of the double thickness and the first single thickness. Interestingly enough, they both matched the original thickness of a single sheet of HDPE.

    This stuff is surprisingly touch, even at only .004" thick, but I do not think it will hold up to firing.

    I'm going to try a variation here in a bit.
    "I have enough ammo and guns to shoot my way into Nevada." - California resident.

  12. #92
    Boolit Master gunslinger20's Avatar
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    I have only read 3 pages of the thread soooooo if im out of line let me know but here gos why cant you drop the powder charge in the case insert a gas ck (cup up) insert a precut measured lenth of 410 case (plastic) fill with shot gas ck on top. If needed crimp 1 or both ends of the 410 case.
    Last edited by gunslinger20; 01-30-2011 at 09:18 AM.

  13. #93
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    Less shot capacity that way.

    With a 3 piece cup like that, I imagine the patterns would blow quite readily.
    "I have enough ammo and guns to shoot my way into Nevada." - California resident.

  14. #94
    Boolit Master gunslinger20's Avatar
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    Sorry I didnt specify 45 colt ruger revolver.

  15. #95
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    45 Ruger LC - Modified for 444 Short Marlin

    In the days of Sketer Skelton articles, a friend and I had Ruger 45 LC's with the extra 45 ACP cylinder. The ACP cylinders were modified by using a adjustable reamer to produce a straight bore in the cylinder of appropriate size. Marlin 444 brass was cut down to the Ruger cylinder length. I reamed three of the ACP chambers to what I termed "45 Huntsman".

    I loaded (7)grains of Unique, a thin card wad, 1/2 ounce of 7 1/2 shot, another thin card wad, and then sealed flush and water-proofed the top with "Poly Seam Seal".

    The attached picture show a 3/32" thick piece of polypropylene that was shot with one load at (10)yards. The 7 1/2 shot went clean through the plastic. I circled each hole in the plastic made by the 7 1/2 shot with a black marker. From memory, I believe the load started out with 155 shot, with 144 poking holes in the torso sized plastic.

    We also experimented with "BB" shot for a "hallway clearer". A law enforcement friend saw an application for this. The energy of this size load, in the 45 Hunstman, is about equal to a 38 Special. We achieved similar patterns and it would definitely give one holes for thought.
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  16. #96
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    Welcome to the board dhufford.
    Outstanding first post.
    You're going to fit right in around here.
    Matt

    44 Special Articles

    With regards to gun control in this country, everyone should be asking themselves one question:
    What is it that this government feels they need to do, but can't do, unless the citizens of this nation are first disarmed?
    (I seriously doubt you can come up with any plausible answers that you will like...)

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  17. #97
    Boolit Master Cadillo's Avatar
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    This appears to work well, bt also appears to be quite labor intensive. Has anyone ever loaded .45 Colt, 45-70, etc. using cut down .410 wads, shot, and an overshot wad , gas check etc.?
    There is some ammo and more ammo. There is never enough ammo!

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunslinger20 View Post
    I have only read 3 pages of the thread soooooo if im out of line let me know but here gos why cant you drop the powder charge in the case insert a gas ck (cup up) insert a precut measured lenth of 410 case (plastic) fill with shot gas ck on top. If needed crimp 1 or both ends of the 410 case.
    You don't need to read the whole thread, just go read the FIRST post, I explained all of that there. The method you mention works, as does powder/gc/shot/round ball, but it blows patterns and leads the bore something terrible. My method solves these problems.

    Gear

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillo View Post
    This appears to work well, bt also appears to be quite labor intensive. Has anyone ever loaded .45 Colt, 45-70, etc. using cut down .410 wads, shot, and an overshot wad , gas check etc.?
    Yes. We covered that several times. The .410 wads are too small to work very well in the 45 calibers. The petals spread and shot gets jammed against the rifling, causing leading. In a smoothbore this isn't much of a problem, in fact I have chamber inserts to shoot 28-ga. shells in my 12-ga, and the 28-ga. wads spread plenty once out of the chambers and into the barrels, but the smoothbore just doesn't lead like a rifled barrel will with shot.

    It is fairly labor intensive, but how many of these do you reall think you'll ever need to make? I've only killed one snake with them (.357Magnum version) and most of the others I've fired have been in testing. I did go to the skeet range a few times, last time I blew a dozen or so of them at station #1 and #7 with my Ruger .45 Colt, actually broke most of the birds I shot at!

    Gear

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhufford View Post
    In the days of Sketer Skelton articles, a friend and I had Ruger 45 LC's with the extra 45 ACP cylinder. The ACP cylinders were modified by using a adjustable reamer to produce a straight bore in the cylinder of appropriate size. Marlin 444 brass was cut down to the Ruger cylinder length. I reamed three of the ACP chambers to what I termed "45 Huntsman".

    I loaded (7)grains of Unique, a thin card wad, 1/2 ounce of 7 1/2 shot, another thin card wad, and then sealed flush and water-proofed the top with "Poly Seam Seal".

    The attached picture show a 3/32" thick piece of polypropylene that was shot with one load at (10)yards. The 7 1/2 shot went clean through the plastic. I circled each hole in the plastic made by the 7 1/2 shot with a black marker. From memory, I believe the load started out with 155 shot, with 144 poking holes in the torso sized plastic.

    We also experimented with "BB" shot for a "hallway clearer". A law enforcement friend saw an application for this. The energy of this size load, in the 45 Hunstman, is about equal to a 38 Special. We achieved similar patterns and it would definitely give one holes for thought.
    Very nice, thanks for sharing. I think you have made yourself a very handy little gun and load.

    Gear

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check