Could really use some help with leading

[MtGun44]

Please measure your cylinder throats and groove diameter and post, along with your boolit
diameter.

Bill

[alping45]

Three44s, I agree, I need to sort out one weapon at a time. For now I'll focus on my SRH Alaskan and maybe the P220.

I did try the 45/45/10 mix today with the SRH and the P220, I did not get to try too many different loads, but so far the results seem unchanged. Still leading in both guns. I am using the same boolits for each, Lee 230gr truncated cone TL sized to .454. However, I did slug my cylinders again and did indeed find that they are bigger than I thought. They are almost at .455, grooves are right at .452. And as 462 said, I did find that my cylinder throats are leading. So perhaps the entire problem with the SRH is that I need atleast a .455 boolit? The P220 slugs at .452 also, could .454 be too big? I've tried sizing to .452 with the same results but cant find a .453 sizer, maybe I'll open up the .452 sizer.

[alping45]

I also imagine I could be doing more to clean/treat my barrels? To get the lead out I've just been running jacketed bullets through until I cant see any more lead in the barrel and I've been scrubbing with Hoppe's #9 solvent and lubricating oil on patches. Perhaps treating the bore with some things Three44s mentioned would help me out also?

[HangFireW8]

To get the lead out I've just been running jacketed bullets through until I cant see any more lead in the barrel and I've been scrubbing with Hoppe's #9 solvent and lubricating oil on patches.

Hoppe's and patches are not enough. Firing jacketed bullets irons out lead throughout the bore, also the steel has to flex to let it pass and that can't be good. (This has been scientifically verified going back to the 1930's, see Hatcher et al).

I nabbed a genuine Lewis Lead Remover before Brownell's bought them out and jacked up the price. It's not hard to cobble up something similar. It involves dragging a brass screen (as in window screen) patch through the bore on a rubber cone. Some folks use a brass Chore Boy on a bronze brush. Some principal.

I also have an Outer's Foul Out but the LLR is way faster in a handgun.

-HF

[Tazman1602]

You've gotten some GREAT answers here man. One thing is that leading is NOT a huge issue while you are experimenting and getting things up to par so that you DON'T have leading issues.

Get some "Chore Boy" brand bronze or copper wool pads, you can get them at Walgreens or Wally World -- make SURE they aren't steel wool. Wrap a few strands around a cleaning jag, down through the bore a few times with hoppes number nine or whatever and leading is GONE and you can start over.

I haven't had great luck with LLA at all, I use harder lubes but I also push the bullet a bit faster -- you might try that with the LLA lube you're using just to see what happens when you shove them out the barrel faster..........now that you know how to get the lead out in a hurry with not a lot of hassles.

On the revolver throats -- you said you could push the bullets through with "just a little pressure" but is this AFTER you size them to your barrel diameter? If so you should be OK.

Heck man just keep shooting them and KEEP NOTES on what works and what doesn't and pretty soon you'll be like the rest of us looking for more wheel weights..................

Welcome!

Art

[alping45]

Yeah Tazman, I am very greatful for all the input I have received since my first post two days ago. I might have given up by now if I hadn't realized how much people are willing to help.

I'll definitely pick up some Chore Boy to scrub my bores with. May just order up one of the LLR's as well, I've heard they work wonders.

Back to the revo throats, I discovered that the boolits were not dropping through easily only because they had a thick (too thick) coat of LLA on them. Once cleaned off they will pass right through with only gravity, not what I want right? I think I'm going to cast some more up tomorrow and try them as cast without sizing.

[Tazman1602]

An easy way to check the cylinder bores (throats) is to take a fired case and measure the inside diameter with an inside mic or a caliper. The cylinder should NOT be SMALLER than the bore diameter (the inside neck of the fired case.....). If that IS (oops) SMALLER than the bore, then the cylinders will have to be reamed to a bit bigger than the barrel bore so the bullets are not getting swaged down before it hits the barrel forcing cone/barrel.

Object is the throats (cylinders) should not be *smaller* that the barrel itself or you will get leading but it sounds like you've already measured that one.

Art

[462]

alping45,

You're on the right track...fatter boolits.

[Bucks Owin]

Fit bullets to throat, lube with Supermoly, should be good to go IMO...

[alping45]

Ok, I had some progress today! I casted up some more boolits but was pretty bummed to find that the mold isn't dropping them as big as I would like. If I measure across the seam I get .453-.454. Accross the two halfs I get between .455-.456. So I figured I would try them as cast hoping that the cylinder throats would swage them round and expand the smaller area. Used the 45/45/10 mix and loaded with 9.4grs of trail boss and the first dozen or so shots showed zero leading!

But after another couple dozen shots I am seeing some light leading starting at the forcing cone and going about 1" up the bore, and it seems to be mostly only on one side of the bore?. I am assuming this is because there are some boolits that are still undersize around the seam allowing some gas blowby in the cylinder throats? Is there anything I can do to make my mold drop bigger or am I going to need a custom/diffrent mold?

I also couldn't help myself and had try out some trail boss in 38spl loads for my GP100, and WOHOO I am glad I did! I ended up coming up with a load that is producing very minimal if not zero leading! I am filling the case with as much TB as it will hold without compressing the charge, as IMR says compressed loads can be dangerous, which is about 4.2grs. I am using 158gr hardcast SWC's from widenders, and I tuble lubed them with the 45/45/10 mix also even though they already have the lube groove filled in. The battery in my chrony is dead, but I am estimating there doing around 8-850fps, and they shoot great! I shot about 75 of them and had only a tiny hint of leading around the forcing cone, which is perfectly acceptable for me. I was so excited I filled up my loadmaster and cranked out 5 boxes of them!! I have shot probably about 150 so far and it does not seem to be getting any worse. I bought 2k of the 158gr SWC's before I started casting so I figure I might as well start using them up!

[462]

alping45,
Leading on the forcing cone and in the first 1" or so of the barrel is an indication of a skinny boolit.

Check the sticky on "beagling". It's a reversible method, using foil tape, to increase a mould's size. After it drops the correct size boolit, you can make a permanent fix by lapping.

[Snobal]

In the past forty years I've shot thousands of my cast bullets in .41 Mag and .44 Mag without leading problems --- but I only used enough H4227 powder to get 1,200 to 1,250 fps with #2 alloy and the old "NRA Formula" bullet lube.

However, in .38 and .357:

- I've not found a "store-bought" cast bullet that did not lead by barrels (I have not tried many different brands because my cast bullets work great).

Both Speer and Hornady 148 grain HBWC bullets have leaded my barrels - while my 148 grain, BBWC bullets made from my attempt at Lyman #2alloy from an RCBS mold only gives very light leading in the forcing cone (After shooting 50 to 100 shots, a pass with a brass brush and then a patch shows no visible leading in the bore).

- I finally ran out of my stock pile of of "NRA Formula" bullet lube (mostly Javelina) and believe the old Alox 2138F worked a little better than the Alox replacement. I could get away with one or two grooves lubed with the old stuff but now need to lube all three grooves with my RCBS luber/sizer (My groups are just as good as with the new as the old stuff).

- I have never "slugged" the cylinders of my .38's or .357's to see if they need to be reamed. On a good day from sandbags, I have had 6-shot groups at 25 yards that measure less than 1" c-t-c and most always get groups of less than 2". Therefore, I don't want to take a chance of screwing up a gun that shoots "good enough for me."

My guess is that a better/different bullet lube and switching to slower burning powders may help your leading problem.

JMHO - YRMV

[alping45]

Latest update: I acquired a nice RCBS 45-270-SAA from a friendly fellow member here, casted up a few pounds of ww and tried a couple loads today out of my SRH Alaskan in .45lc.
Casted with strait wheel weights, air cooled, weighing in at 271gr, using as cast right around .455. Lubed with the 45/45/10 since I can't find a .455 lubesize die for my RCBS lube-a-matic lubesizer.

Battery is still dead in chrony but velocity is the least of my worries at this point.

#1: 9.2gr trailboss(as much as I could fit w/out compression)
Shot nicely, negligible recoil, clean, but leading the first 1/16" of the forcing cone after 6rnds.

#2: 10gr unique- some recoil, clean, shot ok, but severe leading though entire barrel (I know all 2.5" of it?), but after 3 rounds?!

Next step: I pan lubed a good handfull of these boolits tonight with the lyman orange magic and loaded up a few rounds using trailboss, titegroup and unique to try out tomorrow.
Can anyone give me some other load recommendations to try out? I have these pistol powders on hand at the moment: Trailboss, titegroup, unique, bluedot, herco, H110/W296, AA#5, AA#9, IMR4227, Lil'gun, bullseye, herc 2400. I am using starline .45lc brass with wolf LP primers and have a good amount of assorted .454 brass primed with wolf SRM primers. BTW, I'm actually quite pleased with the wolf primers, after having bought them because thats all that was available, in finding that they are extremely clean burning and seem very reliable once I put a new hammer spring in the Alaskan.

[alping45]

Ok I tried out these loads with the pan lubed boolits, the unique and titegroup were leading pretty bad, but the trailboss had no leading whatsoever that I could detect. In fact, it cleaned the remaining lead out of the barrel from the previous loads. Why am I still leading with the other powders? I need some other recipes to try.

[Snobal]

alping45 -

You said that you have some IMR4227. Try that.

I get great accuracy with H-4227 and reduced "felt recoil" than other powders when loaded to the same velocity (per my chronograph).

Now the funny part.

H4227 never completely burns. When there was snow on the ground, I find unburned powder in the snow in front of me after shooting several rounds of H-4227.

Recovered cast bullets shot with H-4227 have "dimples" in their bases from the individual grains of powder. It appears to me the powder next to the primer pushes the bullet and unburned powder down the barrel.

In any case, H-4227 was recommended to me by my favorite gunsmith when I first started reloading cast bullets. It has always produced tight groups and a lead-free barrel for me.

JMHO - YRMV

[alping45]

I gave the IMR4227 a try, it was leading in the first 1/4" of the forcing cone. Guess I'll be sticking with the trail boss. Have shot many loads with it and still zero leading so far.

[healey55]

I have a lewis lead remover and it works. On my 44 mags I shot a lot of jacketed bullets when the gun was new.. maybe 1,000.. it seemed to smooth up the bore.

Some say that shooting jacketed bullets after a session of lead does nothing. Maybe.. Not in my case tho. Even tho my guns don't really lead much.. I like to shoot a cylinder full of jacketed after.

I can see the difference even tho, as I said, I don't get much lead in any case. To verify that it is not just "hiding" after the jacketed bullets.... I will run the lewis lead remover through.. the few flakes that come out from the gun that shot jacketed after lead are less than the few flakes more flakes that come out of one I did not shoot jacketed rounds through after.

Like I said.. it may just be my imagination but or just the way my guns are but.. It works for me.