Testing hardness with pencils

[sthwestvictoria]

I found these rules of thumb to hold here as well. I used Staedler pencils in the range 6B to HB.

Soft lead (roof flashing and old fishing weights) dug in at 5B, 4B skated over = 4B hardness.

Air Cooled WW (clip on only) air cooled ingots dug in at HB, B skated = B hardness.

[Elkins45]

http://www.gardco.com/pages/hardness/wolffwilborngardco.cfm

Just going to do some name dropping. The above link has a great deal of Info on Pencil Hardness testing , also I presume quality supplies .

I copied and pasted this link from my broswer so may be it will work. But the company is there
-
Paul N. Gardner Company, Inc. • 1.800.762.2478 • Fax 954.946.9309

I did not ask about posting this Info; I also presumed it would be beneficial to all concerned? please PM any bad news -rather than posting. THNX

I found it incredibly interesting myself, as I have also found the rest of this thread. I'm off to Wally World to pick up some pencils!

[rhouser]

I really have found pencil testing to be useful in comparing metals. Is my current metal softer or harder than my old metal. Are my 2 month old cast bullets harder or softer than my week old bullets.

I also keep a small set of 1/2 lb ingots of known metal eg: rotometal superhard, linotype, clipon wheelweight, rotometal lyman 2, rotometal 20:1, 50/50 solder, and pure soft. I can then compare my latest work metal to known values as well. These are just small ingots cast with a lyman .5 lb mold, but, again, they give me a known value and I trust my pencils to tell me if I am harder softer or about the same as any of these.

I ended up with the 19 pencil staedtler set which gives me quite a range to work with.
Pencil testing provides me a repeatable quality control measure at a GREAT price.

BIG +1 on the Gardco site. That is a really good read.

Thanks to all who contribute to this thread.
rc

[ArrowJ]

It seems like a device similar to the one offered by Gardner could be whipped up by those with a machine shop (not me). Just a block with a hole drilled to hold the pencil at the correct angle etc. Seems like it could be done.

Anyway, I am getting my hardness testers tomorrow...at office depot.

[Sasquatch-1]

I would also like to say that this thread is very useful. The only problem is I had to read through 6 pages of the same thing to get to a post that mentioned how to actually do the test.

I would like to suggest that a sticky be made that list the table that was painstakingly developed by several of the members and the actual directions of how to do the test is done and be locked so no other comments can be added.

Just a suggestion and I hope someone takes it to heart.

[meshugunner]

I haven't yet read all six pages - though I will. I draw with pencil I am something of a graphite pencil nut. I have several hundred of all different kinds.

In my experience there is no standard between manufacturers. Staedtler Mars pencils (one of my faves) tend to be softer on average than Derwent and Derwent Sketching are not the same as Derwent Drafting pencils. Furthermore the increments are not uniform. Sometimes there is a big difference between between two adjacent values sometimes they are almost identical. Finally there are differences between batches

IMO if you are going to use this technique, which does sound interesting, buy one complete set and always use those.

[cactus clay]

chas, i'm new to this whole thing but am a plumber and have cut out quit a bit of lead pipe and melted into ingots. on this pencil test, i assume u push the point ahead of the pencil? is there a optimum angle to have the pencil? i searched around but couldn't find a description of exactly how you test. thnx for ur help in advance.

[fecmech]

The idea is to sand a flat point on the pencil lead and push it into the sample while holding the pencil at about a 45 deg angle to try and scrape off the lead. If the pencil is harder you will get a little gouge in the lead. If the lead is harder you get powdered graphite.

[dnmccoy]

I found 4 packs for as low as $2.99

[cactus clay]

thank u sir

[kelbro]

Got my pencils today. Checked some SOWW, some COWW, some Isotope, and some Lyman #2 and this method seems to be right on. My only concern was that I have a bunch of linotype ingots and my hardest pencil didn't put a gouge in them. Must have some monotype mixed in.

[jws957]

I'm new to casting and this is my first post; I really appreciated this thread, so I wanted to contribute. I decided to get into casting because I shoot into a bullet trap on my land that enables me to recover lead. The lead I've recovered is mostly from plated bullets with some FMJ as well. I don't know what different companies use for lead alloy for FMJ or plated bullets; I did ask one company but never got an answer. So, I decided to buy some different alloys from RotoMetals to "calibrate" my Staedtler pencil set. With the exception of the pure lead below, the pencil hardness listed below is the pencil that doesn't scratch the material, the next harder one scratches it. Here's what I got:

8B RotoMetals 99% pure lead ingot is softer than this, the 8B pencil scratches it
7B
6B
5B
4B
3B
2B Recovered lead from plated and FMJ bullets, also RotoMetals Antimonial Lead that is 4-6% Antimony
B RotoMetals Lyman #2 alloy and RotoMetals 99.8% pure Tin
HB Hunter's Supply Hardcast bullets
F RotoMetals Super Hard Alloy (30% Antimony-70% Lead)
H
2H
etc.

I found that mixing 5-6 lbs of recovered lead with one ingot (4.2lbs) of linotype and about 1/4 lb tin produced bullets in the B to HB range. Hope this helps someone!

[GunFun]

Thank you very much for this practical work.

This is infinately more valuable than most of the hypothesizing that occurs on technical forums.
As a broke guy, I cannot afford a tool that costs $80 for the cheap brand. As a new caster, this can save me from making a mess of my work, produce more consistent bullets, and eliminate variables if I have problems.I could not have known what I was working with before reading your valuable thread.

[coyotewacker]

I'am new to casting but a reloader for 40+ years. I have 3- 80 lbs. + ingots of hard lead they have been sitting in the garage for 20+ years.
The pencil method should give me a ball park start to what I have.

[Remyvtr15]

Let's see....Set of pencils new cost ~$10 at Office Depot
Ames Hardness Tester new cost ~ $1650
That used price for the Ames would have to go down an awful lot just to get below the price of a Saeco tester, a Cabine Tree tester, a Lee tester, and a set of pencils combined.....
I'm sure the Ames is a good piece of equipment but some of us are froooogal......

Or poor

This is about the coolest and most useful thread I've come across.... and there's ALOT of cool and useful stuff on here... Amazing place

[shakey]

I am going to run out and get the pencils today. I have sheet lead melted into ingots, WW melted and range scrap plus lead piping. I am new to casting and this thread helped alot.

Thanks to Molly and everyone else who contributed to this thread.

I copied and printed out the relative hardness of the leads and will keep it with the pencils.

[Dale53]

shakey;
There are six pages of this thread and I am not going back and re-reading them. So, if I'm repeating something previously said, just ignore it.

That said, keep in mind that after lead is melted and cooled it will take two weeks (actually longer but nearly all of the hardness change will be done in two weeks) for the lead hardness to stabilize. Any readings taken before the "resting period" will be invalid. That is a pain, I know, but if you want proper readings, it is necessary to wait...

FWIW
Dale53

[shakey]

Thank you Dale as I did read all the pages but did not remember that part of it. I should be ok as my WW were melted a month ago and the piping about 2 weeks ago and just started on the sheets of lead.

[s1120]

This is a great post!!

Im just getting into casting, and I have a lot of lead that my dad smelted into ingnets, and I have NO IDEA what types of lead he used. Is it pure, WW stuff, or harder. This is a great idea for a guy like me that will give me a baseline of what lead I have. I dont need to know the exact numbers.... just if some is harder, or softer... thanks!!!

[Kull]

Great thread, really great, read all six pages. Picked up the set of 12 Staedtler Mars Lumograph (6B-4H) at Office Depot. Online price shows $20 but in store in was $10.