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Thread: Testing hardness with pencils

  1. #221
    Boolit Master 6622729's Avatar
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    All of the above. It depends on the information you are looking for. If you are trying to alloy a pot of metal you might test the components you are puting in the pot. You might test the alloy right after casting. You might test at the time of shooting to diagnose an issue with a load.


    Quote Originally Posted by adam_mac84 View Post
    I have read *most* of the pages here... but didn't see anyone commenting on when they test their alloys. Immediately after ingot/casting? After age hardening? 1 week? 2 weeks?

  2. #222
    Boolit Mold Dumasron's Avatar
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    Don't overlook the fact that alloys closer to pure lead will make heavier bullets from the same mould. My BACO snover mould (40 cal) Makes a 405gr bullet using 25:1 alloy and a 390gr bullet using Lyman #2 alloy.

  3. #223
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    I also hated my Lee hardness test until... I got some scrap wood and made this simple holder. Quick and dirty BUT it really helps





  4. #224
    Boolit Mold
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    I've tried using this pencil test and got some interesting results. I tested some ingots I cast from clip on wheel weights and some I cast from the stick on type. I expected to get readings similar to others with the tape weights being softer but this was not so. Both tested at 14 to 15 BHN. I tried various angles and pressures and always it was the HB pencil that made the scratch/cut. I also tested boolits I cast with each, both bare and powder coated with the same results. Is it me?

  5. #225
    Boolit Master
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    I just tried this. Used a sanding block to make a nice square tip on an HB pencil. Tried it on the base of some boolits that should be 11-12 bhn. Holding the pencil at about a 40 deg. angle I could feel it plow into the lead. Then I tried it on some boolits I made too hard with lino and it skimmed right across the base.

    For my puposes a 2B and an HB would tell me enough.
    Last edited by Cosmic_Charlie; 03-28-2018 at 01:22 PM.

  6. #226
    Boolit Master
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    WOW! This thread has LEGS! fro 2010 to 2018! very interesting and valuable information, which gives us weekend casting Ninjas an idea of what we are shooting in our guns. Thank you, MOLLY, and several others who have cleared up couple of cloudy points. I bet those pencils will not be the sawbuck they once were, tho.

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  8. #228
    Boolit Mold DK'dUranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumasron View Post
    Don't overlook the fact that alloys closer to pure lead will make heavier bullets from the same mould. My BACO snover mould (40 cal) Makes a 405gr bullet using 25:1 alloy and a 390gr bullet using Lyman #2 alloy.
    Aha! A perfect spot for this inquiry: What can be deduced as to an alloy's composition and its BHN if your two data points are your bullets advertised #2 alloy weight, and then the actual weight with your own mix? As a test of my pencil scratching prowess I found some bars that I thought were 14 BHN, close to Lyman #2. In actuality my bullets weighed heavier, about 105% of #2. Other than the obvious fact that my alloy has more Pb as a percentage than a #2 mix, is there an equation or good rule of thumb to analyze one's own mix from those two points of data?

  9. #229
    Boolit Buddy T_McD's Avatar
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    Just wanted to say thanks to all who contributed. Now I can have an idea of hardness without extra equipment

  10. #230
    Boolit Buddy
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    I live in the Pacific North West, halibut and salmon gear is pretty common at garage sales around here. My first pot a lead was a real mystery, about 40 pounds of who knows what fishing lead. I cast about five hundred 148gr 358 Lee TL boolits. I water quenched them. Mistake number one!!! After the fact I read that for .38 Special they should be softer. Now I'm in a pickle. How do I hardness test? Then I found this thread, then I ordered some pencils.

    Here is what I know today. F cuts / Hb don't. So my boolits are somewhere around 15 Bhn.
    I'm going to try some of these faster in .357, with them being hard as they are.
    I'm also going to soften some in the 5 dollar toaster oven I picked up just for this job. Load these soft ones at mild target velocity.
    And lastly I will load some of the harder water quenched ones at hotter +P .38 velocity.
    My goal is no leading. Finger crossed.

  11. #231
    Boolit Master
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    Those pencils are all I need to test for hardness. I leave a clear spot on the top of my melt when I’m done casting, then check it later.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  12. #232
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    I have never found the exact hardness to be critical, I test just to get close. Some people just drop a ingot on concrete and go by the sound the "thud" makes.

    It's been a looooooong time since I went to school and I never got into math with letters .

    Let us know how it works out. [Pictures are always appreciated]

    Many of us on CB use IMGUR http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...es-using-IMGUR

  13. #233
    Boolit Man chasw's Avatar
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    Don't give up, TS. Your Alekseevskii-Tate formula will be very useful determining the amount of erosion a continuous stream of pure lead boolits traveling at 1000 fps cause upon striking a hardened steel plate. Of course you'll need to first test the boolits with the pencils to ensure they are pure lead. Science is mankind's brother. - CW
    Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. - Patrick Henry, March 1775

  14. #234
    Boolit Buddy Doubles Shooter's Avatar
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    This post is great! I'm just getting back into casting after better than 45 tears away. I've acquired a bunch of different ingots over the years, but had no idea of the hardness. Now I can get close enough for me. For an investment of a whopping $0.97 for a basic 6 pencil set at Walmart..

  15. #235
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    I was wondering how pins would work for smelting. Roughly how much lead do you get off of them? We are putting up pins with plastic threads now but we still take down a bunch of the lead ones.

  16. #236
    Boolit Master ACC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasw View Post
    Thanks, Molly and Rob. This is useful information. As I begin to gather data from using my new pencil set on samples from my store of boolit alloys, I am beginning to map out a scale of sorts - call it the Staedtler Scale, after the makers of these fine artist's pencils. So long as one sticks to that widely available brand of pencils and uses the correct technique, results will be similar. Molly observed spacing of about 1-3/4 BHN between some of the grades, perhaps at the softer end of the scale. Here's what I've gathered so far:

    6B = Pure lead, about 5 BHN
    5B
    4B
    3B = 1in20 tin/lead alloy, age softened, about 10 BHN
    2B
    B
    HB = Lyman no 2 alloy, about 15 BHN
    H = Linotype, supposedly about 22 BHN, but that seems high
    2H
    3H
    4H

    I offer this cheap but effective method of testing relative hardness, not particularly to convert pencil numbers to Brinell numbers, but rather as an alternate scale for boolit casters, with reference points to known alloys. If I pick up some scrap lead, or buy alloy from a smelter, I can quickly find out where it lies, relative to those other alloys. For example, my small stock of LaserCast brand commercial lead projectiles tested HB. I never had any luck with them, I've been saving them for the furnace, now I know approximately where they fit in as feedstock.

    The bullets I cast from Lyman no 2 do very well in my rifles, with no leading at all. But methinks that alloy is too hard to maintain a tight seal in my revolver loads. So I'll try some of the 1in20 alloy, maybe with some Lino mixed in to boost it up into the 2B range. - CW
    OK, what is a normal No. 2 pencil?

  17. #237
    Boolit Man
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    Wal-Mart sells a set of 12 sketching pencils under the name daler Rowney for $5.99 Incase someone is looking for cheap ones.

  18. #238
    Boolit Master


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    Now I just bought a set of artists' pencils from Amazon to test my stuff - cool wizardry on this forum, thanks!
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  19. #239
    Boolit Mold
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    If all I want to do is separate my ingots into my two primary categories (clip-on WW versus stick-on), I should go at it with a 5B pencil? Reading this thread, ACCOWW could be Brinell 9-12 so if 5B scratches it, it's probably not ACCOWW. Does this sound reasonable?

  20. #240
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    IF that's all you have you can just drop them on concrete, the COWW will make a discernably higher ringing sound when the hit.

    Yes, scrape/clean a small spot on the surface with a chisel or ? and test with a 5B pencil. IF the 5b doesn't scratch it then it's more than 8 bhn

    COWW normally drops around 12 BHN

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check