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Thread: Recommend a bolt action rifle that will shoot 5.56x45

  1. #1
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    Recommend a bolt action rifle that will shoot 5.56x45

    Here's the issue, I have a ton of 5.56x45 ammo and I'd like to shoot some of it in a varmint rifle, a bolt action varmint rifle. I'm also not looking to break the bank doing this. I have considered maybe getting an upper for my AR for varminting, but would much rather have a bolt gun for this. I'm really looking hard at Savage, particularly the Model 25 in .223. I'm open to other suggestions as well. All the surplus 5.56 I have is 55 grain, I have no 62 grain if that helps. I'm not too concerned about using JHP or JSP for this, the sole reason for this rifle is to shoot the 5.56 I already have on hand. The longest distance I might be shooting would be maximum 450 yards, and that won't be often, realistically, most shots would be under 200 yards.
    I know there's issues with the lead in shooting 5.56 in a .223 rifle, I'm hoping there's someone on the forum here who has first hand experience with what I'm wanting to do, and can point me in the right direction.
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    Boolit Master
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    When you are looking at them think about what bullets you might want to shoot, not just weight but also length. My 223's have 1-7" or 1-8" twists so I can shoot just about anything. As a matter in fact there is a group buy going on now for a 60gr that will work with a 1-8" twist at 1600 fps.

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    I thought I was pretty clear about what I wanted to shoot with this rifle? Surplus 5.56x45 ammo. Not reloads. Not .223. Only 5.56x45 surplus 55 gr ammo. It's either a bolt action, or I'll have to buy a varmin upper for my AR. I would rather shoot a bolt gun for this though.
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    Both my brother and I have Savage 10 FV in 223

    Both will out shoot what we are able to

    Hard to beat them for out of the box accurcy

    John
    Yea, thou I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me; Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.
    And I carry a LOADED Hell Cat

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    Get a stevens 200.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey45 View Post
    I thought I was pretty clear about what I wanted to shoot with this rifle? Surplus 5.56x45 ammo. Not reloads. Not .223. Only 5.56x45 surplus 55 gr ammo. It's either a bolt action, or I'll have to buy a varmin upper for my AR. I would rather shoot a bolt gun for this though.
    Dude! The 5.56X45 IS a 223!

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    No dude, it's not.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey45 View Post
    No dude, it's not.....
    Well then, Why was I able to shoot it in my Remington 788 223? It is the same stuff. So is 5.56 NATO

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    I'm not getting in a pissing match with you daniel, there are countless articles all over the net proving that 5.56x45 and 223 are not the same thing, go look them up. It's better to be informed than opinionated.
    There ARE differences between the .223 Remington as shot in civilian rifles and the 5.56x45 in military use. While the external cartridge dimensions are essentially the same, the .223 Remington is built to SAAMI specs, rated to 50,000 CUP max pressure, and normally has a shorter throat. The 5.56x45 is built to NATO specs, rated to 60,000 CUP max pressure, and has a longer throat, optimized to shoot long bullets. That said, there are various .223 Remington match chambers, including the Wylde chamber, that feature longer throats. Military 5.56x45 brass often, but not always, has thicker internal construction, and slightly less capacity than commercial .223 Rem brass.
    Give us this day our daily lead.

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    Banned Bullshop Junior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey45 View Post
    I'm not getting in a pissing match with you daniel, there are countless articles all over the net proving that 5.56x45 and 223 are not the same thing, go look them up. It's better to be informed than opinionated.
    There ARE differences between the .223 Remington as shot in civilian rifles and the 5.56x45 in military use. While the external cartridge dimensions are essentially the same, the .223 Remington is built to SAAMI specs, rated to 50,000 CUP max pressure, and normally has a shorter throat. The 5.56x45 is built to NATO specs, rated to 60,000 CUP max pressure, and has a longer throat, optimized to shoot long bullets. That said, there are various .223 Remington match chambers, including the Wylde chamber, that feature longer throats. Military 5.56x45 brass often, but not always, has thicker internal construction, and slightly less capacity than commercial .223 Rem brass.
    Almost any military ammo is that way. So going by what you are telling me, that means you better not shoot LC 30/06 (er 7.62X63) in a standard 30/06, or LC 308 (er 7.62X51) in a standard 308.

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    im not sure about the 30/06 and the /63 ammo but no unless a factory rifle is chambered for a nato cartridge it isnt recomended to shoot either the 5.56 in a .223 or the /51 in a .308 not only for the pressure differances but nato brass is usualy thicker wall than standerd brass .. easy way to make up your own mind .. call remington and see what they say

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    Banned Bullshop Junior's Avatar
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    I don't know about the deal with the chamber. I DO know that the cartridge dimensions are the same, and that is what I was referring too.

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    Boolit Master
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    He has very specific questions. He is concerned about the leade in a factory new barrel and will that be a problem with his military 5.56 ammo? What bolt rifles are set up from the factory so they will handle 55 gr. military ammo? I don't know the answer, but that is the main question.

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    Boolit Master GabbyM's Avatar
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    What sort of varmints? Palm sized or 22 pound ?

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    Ground hogs mostly.
    Give us this day our daily lead.

    Sic Semper Tyrannis.

    If you don't want 1984 you're going to need some 1776.
    WWGWD

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    M-193 is loaded to high pressure. Off the top of my head it's at least 60K PSI or a touch over. About what we see in the new short magnum rounds. This opposed to 30-06 military and 7.62 x 51mm NATO which are loaded at modest pressure. So while the 30 caliber may run a higher pressure in a SAMI bolt gun it's still well within usable range. On the other hand. Any pressure gain in a 5.56 NATO load and you're closing in on 70 K PSI. Since it's pretty hard to blow a thick cupped military type primer I've never heard much in the way of horror stories of chaps shooting 5.56mm in a 223 rifle. I”ve read in magazine articles and the WWW forums all about it. But most shooter just run em through and never notice a glitch. Just like our friend Bullshop JR.

  17. #17
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    They are proof pressure tested at the same pressure according to SAAMI. I would say he just wants a blasting around gun. The thing to remember is some of the military rounds are made with aluminum in part of the core making them longer then a standard bullet with a lead core requiring them to have a faster twist. You never know what you might get at a good deal on military ammo and I would error on the side of a faster twist.

  18. #18
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    Trey45,

    Keep in mind that the FMJ bullets in surplus ammo will ricochet pretty badly. Varmint bullets are designed to blow up when hitting anything. FMJ are designed to keep going.

    One other point is that the accuracy you are likely to get from surplus ammo and 55gr bullets may not be adequate for varmint hunting. My match ammo shoots well under an inch at 100 yds (AR-15) while 55gr FMJ goes about 2" at the same distance.

    I also have a Savage bolt action .223 with the Accustock and it seems to shoot pretty well. I have only used reloads though, no surplus.

    John

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    To boil it down, I'm considering a Savage Model 25 LV .223 with a 1-9 twist barrel. Am I going to blow the damn thing up and me with it if I shoot my military 55gr 5.56x45 ammo in it? I have an AR that I shoot this ammo in, and if I have to I'll get a target/varmint upper for it for precision shooting, but I would much rather use a bolt gun. I'm not really worried about shooting sub moa with milsurp ammo, at the same time I'd rather not have to buy .223 ammo to shoot since i have a plethora of 5.56x45 ammo on hand, most likely a lifetime supply of it.
    Give us this day our daily lead.

    Sic Semper Tyrannis.

    If you don't want 1984 you're going to need some 1776.
    WWGWD

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey45 View Post
    To boil it down, I'm considering a Savage Model 25 LV .223 with a 1-9 twist barrel. Am I going to blow the damn thing up and me with it if I shoot my military 55gr 5.56x45 ammo in it? I have an AR that I shoot this ammo in, and if I have to I'll get a target/varmint upper for it for precision shooting, but I would much rather use a bolt gun. I'm not really worried about shooting sub moa with milsurp ammo, at the same time I'd rather not have to buy .223 ammo to shoot since i have a plethora of 5.56x45 ammo on hand, most likely a lifetime supply of it.
    Doubt it, but do a chamber cast first and measure the throat, if the throat is tight, lengthen it.
    Then you should be fine.

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