Where to shop for a flintlock?

[northmn]

I have plans for a Southern Rilfe circa 1760 or so that had a square breech barrel, obviously a fowler or musket lock and other spare parts and or parts from destroyed firearms. No nose cap or buttplate. Mostly I like to try to build a what likely could have been and favor early guns such that a trigger guard from an 1840 Bedford county would look rather silly on a gun intended to represent something from about 1770. However, more and more I tend to like the plainer working guns. By their nature of being a "barn" gun I doubt that a very high proportion of shimmels have survived.

Northmn

[FL-Flinter]

Northmn,

I'm almost in total agreement with you. I tend to like some bling but not too-much. I like crisp cut lock panels and molding/transitional lines where distinct surface changes are made. I think the modern mass-production guns, both ML & CF, have taken away the gun owner's appreciation for natural wood and quality craftsmanship. I had a saleman from Merkel hand me a SxS all dolled-up with engraving and gold inlays on the iron which didn't impress me at all because it was cluttered to the point of looking like a test block sitting next to the bench for a few years. Instead of having a nice hunting mural scene with just a mild unintrusive frame, it was just a mass of excessive scroll without definition. The thing that turned me off the most was the combination of the poly or poly-blend finish over sanded wood, lack of definition around the lock panels and plain old boring and borderless diamond checkering. He seemed annoyed that I wasn't awestruck by it and he got even more annoyed when he pressed for my opinion and I told him the truth about what I liked and what I didn't. Some people like it, some don't, "opinion" is what it is. Point being, there is nothing that turns me off quicker than sanded wood, it's just ugly because it takes away the natural look and feel of the wood. I scrape and burnish wood no matter if it's going on a flintlock or an SVD (Snayperskaya Vintovka Dragunova), sure it takes a lot more time and effort but it's worth it to those who appreciate the true beauty of wood.

I suppose there's some artist in me because I tend to use some color contrast as well and if it's fitting which is why I often prefer the bulk of the gun to be natural or near natural colored wood. Of course that's personal opinion but nothing turns me off quicker than a light colored wood like Magnolia or Pecan being stained dark (poop) brown. On the other hand, when a true blond wood is used, it leaves the door wide open for the option of adding some color highlights especially when a combination of incise & relief carvings and/or sharp transitional definitions are used. Depends on the styling though and often times it's best to just walk away from it for a few days to see how it looks when you come back to it, that's especially important when working with darker or reddish colored wood like Cherry, Walnut and Red Gum because unlike the true blond wood that allows for tempering, darker woods leave little to no room for error.

I've got nothing against "plain" be it in styling or figure in the wood. I can appreciate what I consider a poorboy or barn gun built with minimal furniture, no bling and straight-grained wood just as much as a tricked-out Jaeger build on full-curl wood. The "look" is proportional to the style and in my opinion, if one wants a barn gun with minimal furniture but dolled-up with carving, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that because just as scrimshaw started because of sailors "customizing" their own stuff, why would anyone think that the same was not done with those guns cobbled together by people who were not professional gun builders or by someone who bought a plain gun and did his/her own things to it by light of the campfire.

On the topic of non-PC, I had a client send me a box of parts and a 36" rifled oct-rnd barrel, he bought them individually based on what he liked. Chambers early Germanic flintlock, scroll trigger, Jaeger buttplate, sort of a French style trigger guard and a set of thimbles that were possibly Danish style. I made a rough drawing of what I thought it would kinda look like using the supplied parts, I had to put some curve in the wrist and roll it back up to the comb and he gave me the, "Go for it." I had to make a sideplate because the straight one he sent wouldn't work with the Germanic lock, it was definitely different looking. The client was thrilled with it but about a month later he called to tell me that when he took his purpose-built hunting gun to an informal ML shoot at a local club a couple of self-appointed PC Police began giving him a hard time about it not being this or that. He said the place got quiet and he waited for them to finish their rant before saying, "Screw you! It's built exactly the way I wanted it and if you don't like it, tough ****! I don't tell anyone else what to shoot and for dang sure no one else is going to tell me what I can or can't shoot and if you don't like that, go home and quit annoying people with your bull****!" He said there was about 25-30 people standing around when this incident happened and when he got done ripping the PC Police a new one, snickers and chuckles from the crowd turning into a round of applause as the PC Police walked away with their heads down like a couple of whipped puppies.

Obviously I'm not alone in thinking he did the right thing, I've been there too and unless it's an organized "traditional PC only" event, I think these self-appointed PC Police would be better serving to the entire black powder ML family by just keeping their mouths shut.

[waksupi]

Those PC police can be a hoot. I was dog soldier at a west nationals a few years ago, and a lady came up with a complaint. She was telling us that someone was wearing clothing that was totally out of time period.

As she was telling us this, she was smoking a filter cigarette, that she lit with a Bic lighter.

[northmn]

Most of the PC police watched too many B movies and base their opinions on them. A lot of them could not shoot for s##t and decided to become "experts" in how it hsould have been done. One individual I remember went to the National Western Rondy and was surprised at how stark the camps were of the American Mountain Men Society. Mostly a gun is best built from parts that are aeshetically compatable and somewhat correct. My point in mixing parts is that while one can do as they darn well like, using an 1840 part on a 1770 rifle if one is kind of into 1770 stuff does not mix too well. Also there is an issue of sale value to me. While a hunting beater can be anything, a gun that I may wish to sell someday will be more valuable if it is somewhat PC. I did build a couple of percussions out of parts left over from projects where I changed my mind etc. One of them I still own and use as a percussion because it does not have that high value we are talking about. Still have gotten a few compliments on it as it is definitely better than any production gun. Bulders ought to hang a picture of a production gun over their bench so that when they get discouraged over a screw up they can see a big one.

Northmn

[Maven]

You know, I've often suspected that the self-appointed (or should I say annointed?) period correct and politically correct police either have something to hide, have an overwhelming need to prove how "righteous" they are, or are just plain hypocrites.

[oldhickory]

It really doesn't matter what WE say, YOU'RE the one who is spending the money and it's going to be YOUR rifle...Get one you're going to be happy with for a long time, (you'll get more...Trust me!) Look go to the links provided, pick what you like and study up on it a little. As long as it has quality parts and is assembled properly it should be a good shooter, the rest is up to you.

There's many styles, or "schools" of the early flinters, I say take a good long look around, see what appeals to you and do some study on them, try to handle a few and make your decision from there. Personally I like the early Lancaster, York, Christian Springs, or Virginia style rifles, plain or carved maple stock, with or without patch box. I just like the wide early style but stocks and high combs of these rifles, but that's just me.

[waksupi]

The AMM can go to both extremes. I was invited to one of the members lodges one afternoon. Went inside, and there were aluminum camp chairs, a folding aluminum table, and Eddie Bauer sleeping bags kicked to the back.
The thing that really turned me off on them, a brigade ran their horses into camp, at over 10,000 feet, then sat the horses bs'ing and drinking. Flat land stock, that should have been walking at that altitude, and tended to immediately.
I've hunted with some of them that would starve to death in a supermarket, if they couldn't find the aisle with the can openers.

[FL-Flinter]

Waksupi,

Love the cigarette one! LOL Sounds like our politicians...

In all fairness based on my experience, the majority of rondy's are not run by the PC police. I've stopped at some with "public welcome" on the sign and indeed everyone was welcome, even my dogs - they always had a great time playing with the young'ins. There was a couple times when I wandered into the "period only" sections and the reminders were very polite, no hard time and no big deal even though it was my own fault for not paying attention to the signs.

The rondy's, pow wow's and reenactments have a lot to offer for both the participants and the public. The efforts are appreciated by history buffs and especially the history fanatics like myself because it's about as close as one can get to stepping into a time machine. I know we often complain about the annoying PC Police but while they can be PITA's, they are the exception and not the rule.

[northmn]

I quit the local Rondys because too many wanted to camp out and drink beer. Shooting was getting to be almost looked down upon. Most of the campers would state that if they shot as much as the shooters did or practiced as much they would be as good. They did not and they weren't. One of the problems when you have a open shooting match is that its the shooting that attracts folks, and then they may get into the recreation. You have to permit the blue jeans and baseball caps to get interest. We always let them use traditional production guns with adjustable sights. The rise in popularity of the zip guns may have created another issue. I know the local clubs do not like them. I had a couple of shirts and pants, even shoes that were period correct, but many of the PC police did not know that as they were cloth. I heard an interesting comment from a lady that has studied dress of the times. her claim was that, women that did not wear hats or bonnets were generally "working girls". How many know that?

Northmn