Home made dies

[63 Shiloh]

Fellers,

Without having a milling machine, is there an alternative accessory I can use on my lathe?

Would a lathe mounted vertical mill slide allow me to make my own dies using the methods so far posted in this thread?

Mike

[KTN]

I assume you mean on how to make reamer for point forming die?
You can fix reamer blank to correct height to toolholder and put endmill on chuck to cut flutes. This is how I milled handle slots to my first homemade boolit molds.




Kaj

[63 Shiloh]

I wanted to try and not use the tool post as I wanted the extra strength and rigidness.

Like this one mate: http://users.picknowl.com.au/~gloaming_agnet/mill.html


Mike

[KTN]

With that setup, making reamers should be easy .
And as always, keep us posted on your progress.


Kaj

[morton45]

Can anybody suggest what grade of material I should utilise over here in Australia.

Bohler k110 is mentioned in this discussion, I suppose I'm asking what is the equivalent here in Australia.

I have two lathes & a mill, I'd like to attempt to make my own swage dies. is there a step by step thread that includes pictures anyone knows of.

I've done a search but not had much luck.

Thanks in advance for replies

Peter

[PatMarlin]

Welcome aboard to cast boolit heaven Peter! ..

The Finn posting above you has the knowledge you seek. Search his threads. He's not hard to find, just look for your common every day Red Neck ...

[WLANE]

Anybody have drawings of the floating punch holder for the top punch used in the corbin H die. It is externally threaded 1.5 x 12.

Thanks

Will

[dngunsmithing]

Is there any videos available that would show us new boolit molds how to make swaging dies. I'm more of a hands on guy, and since i have no one around these parts that does this, i would love to see some videos on this.

Thanks,
Dave

[Hammer]

I bought a lathe this weekend and will start on my die set in a couple of weeks after I collect the supplies....

I'll be needing LOTS of advice, so please be patient!

Thanks
Ed

[MuzzleFlush]

Hey I'm new to the sight and have looking around, I was wondering is there a material that is recommended for lapping dies to size I'm starting my second set of dies for .224" I lapped the first set over size by .001". I'm making a new reamer set so I leave extra material, I hope to end up at .222" I used brass the first time, I was thinking wood and aluminum any ideas ?

Thanks

[Country]

Can anybody suggest what grade of material I should utilise over here in Australia.

Bohler k110 is mentioned in this discussion, I suppose I'm asking what is the equivalent here in Australia.

I have two lathes & a mill, I'd like to attempt to make my own swage dies. is there a step by step thread that includes pictures anyone knows of.

I've done a search but not had much luck.

Thanks in advance for replies

Peter

Just go to Bohler's at Cardiff and ask for K110 or Sverker 21 . Sverker is practically the same they are D2 type steels . You have to keep it cool while turning or drilling so coolants are required . K 105 would be good also having the same dimension stability and machinability as K110 but less abrasion resistance but not much less.
For pure easy machining K 245 is like butter to cut and oil hardens but would not be as hard as K110 after heat treating and you would have to leave more for lapping as it may change dimension more than K110 but I reckon plenty hard enough for home swaging dies .
D2 equivalents.

Bohler K110 (D2) , Carpenter D2 , Crucible AIRDI 150 (D2) , Latrobe LSS D2 , Uddeholm Sverker 21 (D2), Assab XW41 and 42 , Thyssen Thyrodur 2379, Sanderson 476 ,

Bohler "Silver Steel " an O1 tool steel would work also it oil hardens and has a high resistance to dimension distortion but not as high as D2 type steels but machines better than D2 type steels . Would be a good choice for small lathes , is available upto 30 mm diameter rods .

[Methuselah3]

Can you share what modification you do to a Rockchucker Ram to allow ejection of the bullet at each stage and are various lengths of ejector rods required?


Whoops, this went to wrong post.Sorry. Should have been tied to page 1 regarding swage dies used in Rockchucker. Will have to do different here.

[Methuselah3]

Thought I share with you all my little succes on swaging die making. I have been thinking and designing these dies to make .224" bullets from .22 RF cases for a year now, and finally last week I started making them.



These bits are the bisnes ends of core seating and point forming dies with swaged lead slug to measure the cavity. These need some honing and polishing before heat treating. I have my own ideas how I want these dies to work on my Rock Chucker press, so theres more to come. Still need to make derimming and core swaging die, core mould and punches.
I'll keep you all posted as I get more parts and dies made.


Kaj

Can you share what modification you do to a Rockchucker Ram to allow ejection of the bullet at each stage and are various lengths of ejector rods required????When am I going to learn to look at all the posts before asking a question?Please no response is needed on that.LOL.

[Methuselah3]

I don't know if this is the rule but I know I have heard the Corbins and Blackmon talk about the finish seated core being only .0002" less than final bullet diameter. Now this was for .224 bullets and they told me that seated cores should come out of their dies at .2235"- .2238". Then the point forming die would finish the bullet up to .224".

I am no expert in die or metal working so just relaying what I have heard.

Haven't gotten thru this whole topic yet but am wondering how most of us who are hobby machinists and without the skills or equipment of the tool and die maker could EVER achieve this type of accuracy. This seems to indicate a die for the core seater and the finish die would have to have parallel configurations from base to point .0002 inch apart. I don't know how a reamer or lap could have that type of accuracy much less the end die. Can someone show me how that's done? The laps I bought as startup for my own are adjustable from Moldshoptools.com and wore out after finishing one derimming die for a .22 cal . I would like to see some pictures of what is being used for laps by others and where I can find a good buddy to specially grind me reamers for free. I'm not as lucky as some it seems. Just food for thought since many of us are new at this and need some more specifics than seeing the finished product.

[Methuselah3]

Dear gang,

I was thinking last night about those of you in this forum that are interested in dies and came up with an idea that may be worthy of discussion:

What if one or more on this forum had access to some CNC and EDM machines and was able to do a limited run of say 20 sets in various caliber rough dies, die holders, and laps. These dies would be within a thousands or two and would then go through heat treatment. They may be able to be produced at a reasonable cost and then sold in their rough form. The person on the other end purchasing these dies would then do the lapping and polishing work (which is the highest labor content) to produce finished dies to whatever dimensions they desired.

The thought here is that the threads could be cut, holes could be bored, flats could be machined and everything could be done but the finishing in a production manner.


Now, having said all that, I would think that the right way to go about this would be to find a well equipped shop that would be interested in doing a limited run. I would suggest doing the primary work on a CNC machine, do the holes for the squirt die and core seat die on a wire EDM machine, and do the cavity in the pointing die with plunge EDM.

As far as punches and die holders these could be produced on a CNC machine to fairly close dimensions. The punches could be a couple of thousands oversized, heat treated and the end user could finish them.

In terms of drawings and specifications that seems fairly simple with Autocad.

Several questions enter my mind at this point:

What is the market and how many would be interested in purchasing these? If only a few, this may not be worthwhile to pursue.

How would somthing like this be structured - seems like one or two people would front the money and coordinate all the necessary design, manufacturing, orders and distribution.

Your thoughts?

Martin

Perhaps this company would do some of the proposed die project. This is a link to Midway who sells the Callahan die blanks as used to make reload dies. I'm thinking they have the equipment to do this.If this link doesn't work, go to the Midway(reloader supply) and search for Callahan products for pictures.
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?&dimen...ensionid=11913

[Methuselah3]

laps are $20.00 each for most fractional to 64ths, if u need something thats not its a $25.00 set-up fee and the price of the closest lap to the size u need made, its a one time fee so if u going to need to make a bunch of parts then buy as many laps as u might need (just have to pay price of laps after first one , but u have to get them at time of order , if u call back later and need another one u pay set-up fee again!!) the arbors i got were small and were $60.00 each. they never wear out and can be used with diffrent laps. i got 600 grit aluminum oxide compound, a pound of it i think it was. it cuts slower but saves buying 2 diffrent grits..

I'm six pages into the thread and wondering if anyone has more current pricing. Wish I'd known about the American lap Co before buying brass laps from Moldshop Supplies. They wear out quickly.

[Methuselah3]

I think this must be the real secret to making your own dies. Anybody want to volunteer a good buddy setup for custom reamers and heat treatment for dies? LOL.

And of course it didn't go as planned.

Little shop tip and reminder to all. Beware of sharp edges and burrs on machined parts. I cut my left thumb on burr, and it is difficult to work when you can't use your thumb. It's about healed now, so I will give it another try in near future.
It will take all day to heat treat these dies. Hardening at 1020-1040 C and three temperings at 500-510 C, with two hour holding time.


Honing point forming die to correct diameter and smooth finish, without distorting shape, is proving to be hardest part of this project. I'm no machinist or expert in tool and die making either, but I have got lots of good advice, tips and ideas from members here.
Good news is, that my old shooting buddy, who is a toolmaker, offered to make me some custom reamers for this project. If I can figure correct diameter for that reamer, it will save a lot on honing and polishing time.



Kaj

[Methuselah3]

Ever look at the Callahan die blanks sold on Midway? QUOTE=martin;837190]manleyjt,

You state the "hard part so far has been getting the thru hole to be concentric with the die". Could you expand on that a little more and identify where the the issue a little more? Is it that the hole is not concentric with the ouside diameter? Is it that the punches don't line up with the die when they are in the press? From this, maybe I can help.

In your question about dies for a reloading press or specific to a swaging press, I think at this point we could define this any way we wished. I have been using 9/16 x 18 with my dies and it seems to work pretty well for my die holders and reloading press. I also have a "Mighty Mite" press coming. When I get the press I may change my mind on die threads moving forward to adapt to this press. It seems to me that a standard could be developed that would accomodate both and that may in fact be 5/8 x 24 or 5/8 x 18. In other words I have to look at this a little further.

From the responses I have received so far, it does not look to promising to do a run of rough die blanks. I was hoping that others would jump in to say that they had either access to EDM equipment or had contacts with someone that did and was possibly interested. I am sure that there are shops out there that could do the work but the "set-up" charges and the minimum quanties would probably be a killer.

Martin[/QUOTE]

[flseadog]

I'd like to make a set of these. Do you have any plans you'd be willing to share/sell?

Few more pictures


Core swaging die on top of stroke, lead bleeding out. That collar around die is to adjust die height from core seat/point forming die to core swaging die, without moving lockring.



Swaged core ejected. Collar around ram is ejector.



Ejector pictures





From left. Cores cut from lead wire, exess lead bleeded out and swaged cores. Everyone of these cores weight exactly 33.0 grains, swaged with slow count to five



Core swage die on top of stroke. Collar removed and die adjusted lower.



Jacket with seated core ejected.


Jacket with seated core going to point forming die. Ejector pin not finished yet, need to push bullet out by hand.



From start to finished bullet



Dies, still missing some parts, like ejectorpin from point former, base punch from core seater some lock rings and set screws





Kaj

[ksouthar]

I am working on a jacket and core swage die for .224 bullets. Have been looking through the forum for a couple dimensions. Planning a core diameter of .190. What is the dimensional difference between the die cavity diameter and the punches?

For the jacket die, can anyone tell me the final size of the sizing die and the punch? I assume this die is tapered somewhat?


Keith