Titan ReloadingLee PrecisionRotoMetals2Ballisti-Cast
StainLess Steel MediaInline FabricationGraf & SonsMidSouth Shooters Supply
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33

Thread: Paper patch bullets

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Kaneohe, HI
    Posts
    1,122

    Paper patch bullets

    Can someone tell me what the advantages/disadvantages are to paper patch bullets???

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    La.
    Posts
    794
    High speeds with soft lead makes them particularly good for hunting deer. Cool look factor! Only disadvantage I know of is learning to patch them right. All in all, I tend to agree with Paul Matthews when he suggests the paper patched bullet was/is the finest hunting projectile to come down the pike. -JDL

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,345
    You get to play with your bullets a lot longer, you get finger therapy while playing and you can use softer alloys in your bullets. You dont need gas checks.
    It CAN be a very rewarding experience,or a frustrating night mare. You will have to buy rag paper as most type writer papers don't work.I haven't done it for a few years and things change . There may/must be things around now that I never tried when paper patching.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master kodiak1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Alberta Territory. Canada
    Posts
    1,108
    If done right no leading and one h**l of a shiney barrel.
    Ken
    Ken.

    Be nice if it was better, but it could be worse

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Bloomfield, Nebraska
    Posts
    5,437
    I just finished a week of working loads for an original Sharps in 45-80 PP and like it so much I am throating my Sharps for 45-75 PP. The only down side I see is that I have yet to get more than 6 shots without wiping. Accuracy is as good or etter than naked lead and everybody at the range goes,"wow, thats neat". Paper patching is kind of slow for stiff old hands and compared to naked lead bullets you will probably wear out your barrell in 20 thousand rounds or so.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master



    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Southwestern Ohio
    Posts
    7,750
    KCSO;
    If you reserve paper patched bullets for hunting and sighting in, they will have NO effect on your barrel life.

    FWIW
    Dale53

  7. #7
    Super Moderator


    Buckshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    So. California
    Posts
    11,563


    Sixty rounds of 577-450 with patched Lee 458-405F's. In this case they're patched up to .472" in order to fit the throat and leade of a MkIV Martini-Henry.



    The above are slugs I've used in a Whitworth and Rigby long range match rifles (muzzle loaders). Those skewed 6 sided ones only work in the Whitworth



    Some more long range muzzle loader slugs. No difference in these and cartridge rifle types except for the diameter over the patch.

    I work 12 hour unsupervised shifts and I don't do anything except tell drivers I can't help them and to call corporate, and hand out toilet paper and bags of coffee. I have no responsibilities except to show up I suppose if the building caught fire I'd be responsible for calling the FD. At least I think so. I'll have to check that out.

    Anyway, I can do lots of paper patching and get paid while doing it. Besides being able to drive dead soft lead slugs to full jacketed velocities in many cartridges it has other uses too. As I mentioned patching up the Lee 405grs slugs to .472" for the Martini. Not having a correct mould, patching up 'as cast' 45 cal rifle slugs is a way to get boolits.

    Ross Seyfried's first published article was on paper patching and he'd patched up some Hornady 500 gr jacketed slugs to use in a 470 Nitro double rifle. I've patched up 45 cal cast pistol boolits to shoot from a 45-70 over mild charges of fast powder and also some 30 cal slugs to try and get a $39 M91/30 Mosin-Nagant to shoot, and it did too. But I'm danged if I'm going to patch up 30 cal slugs to plink with! BTW, the slugs were Lyman 311284's patched to .316" and they did exceedingly well.

    Paper patching is a very flexible means to get slugs for oddballs or to get heavier or lighter then normal slugs, like patching those 200 pistol slugs for the 45-70.

    Do a search here on the board for "Paper Patch" and you'll get several hits.

    .................Buckshot
    Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always

    Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner.

    "The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president."

    Shrink the State End the Fed Balance the budget Make a profit Leave an inheritance

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    320
    I bought an RCBS mold for a 500 gr PP bullet to use in a 45-70 Browning BPCR. Never did get it to work with black powder. Have cast and shot hundreds of them from my 458 WM. Like jhalcot says ,you get to play with your bullets more before shooting them. I like the raised eyebrows from my shooting buddies when they see them.

    I would question the claim that they wear the barrel more than lead or copper bullets. Paper is fiberous but still much softer than copper. The barrel is nice and clean after shooting them.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Four Fingers of Death's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    6,358
    If you run them through the lubesizer they should be good to go, I'm thinking. Mick.
    "I'll help you down the trail and proud to!" Rooster Cogburn.

    "Slap some bacon on a biscuit and let's go! We're burnin' daylight! " - Will Anderson (John Wayne) "The Cowboys."

    SASS Life Member No 82047

    http://s89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/

    Psycholigist to Sniper; 'What did you feel when you shot the felon Sargeant?'
    Sniper to Psycholigist; 'Recoil Ma'am.'

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    9.3X62AL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SouthParkWithSand-DamagedWindshields, CA
    Posts
    10,941
    Lotta dittoes to the above info from this quarter.

    Paper patching has been a mixed experience for me. An attempt to get an undersized Lee 500 grainer to work in the Ruger #1 x 45-70, the abrupt throat leade angle (probably) stripped the jacket and allowed the soft lead slug to plate, coat, and bush down the bore to about 37 caliber. After reading Paul Matthews' "The Paper Jacket" from Wolfe Publishing, there are "fixes" for those conditions that might get the system humming along. Since plain boolits of the proper size shoot very well from the rifle, there's not much vigor in pursuing paper patching further with that rifle. If I were to really want to shoot the paper patched slugs in the Ruger, a throating job would be a good plan--but since it does well with regular old unpatched boolits, I'm leaving well enough alone.

    The CZ-550 in 9.3 x 62 did VERY well with pure lead Lyman #358430 RN slugs patched up to about .368", then dipped in LLA. I am tempted to get a PB mold of about .359" casting a 270 grain pure lead boolit ginned up for PP work in this caliber, but again--the MM 270 grain conventional boolit does so well, I've enjoyed its work enough to not be motivated to roll up PP's.

    There is a time investment involved in paper patching that argues against extensive use of the practice for everyday shooting, in my view. For limited use venues--big game load development comes to mind here--it makes sense to me. But at some point you have to ask yourself if the time invested is worth the gain received. The practice is a damn sight cheaper than gas checks if you're trying to extend velocity, but the back edge of that sword is the time required to prepare the slugs.

    I would respectfully suggest the Matthews book for a very in-depth but quite readable plain language guidebook to paper patching.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office of the President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts' desire at last and the White House will be adorned with a downright moron."--H.L. Mencken

  11. #11
    I'm A Honcho! montana_charlie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    West of Great Falls, Montana
    Posts
    15,226
    I hope to be forgiven for going a bit off topic, here.

    Buckshot, a question about those 'hex' bullets...
    I understand they are shaped that way to comform to the 'rifling method' in the Whitworth and Rigby barrels.
    But (as in starting a bolt into a tapped hole), do you need to 'screw' the cartridge into the chamber as you load so the hex bullet gets lined up and 'threaded' into the hex bore?

    This is just idle curiosity on my part, but others may have more than a passing interest in your answer.
    CM
    Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Bloomfield, Nebraska
    Posts
    5,437
    Barrel Life/20,000 rounds
    I should care if my grandkids will need to rebarrel my Sharps.

    Having just finished patching and firing a goodly number of P/P in two different guns and having finished "THE SCHUTZEN RIFLE" by Ned Roberts I will offer a couple of observations.

    I think the major problem we have today with P/P is the rifling in the barrels and our choices of powder. Although Ned mentions wiping ever shot for target shooting he also sys that he expected his hunting load to go 10 shots without wiping. In an original Sharps I was able to get 5 shots without wiping pretty easy and with the moden gun I am still working with lubes trying to get off of three. Ned also made a point of saying that each rifle had a lube preference and what worked in one might not work in another. Having shot a goodly number of black powders over the years i think that Swiss is the best we are likey to get anymore. The quality of the powder is directly related to the quality of the charcoal and the millling time and milling is the dangerous part and so is skimped on now days.

    Even with these limitation I think that with a proper leade and good lube 5 to 6 shots without wiping are attainable. I am planning to do a lot of P/P work this summer with both the 45-70 and the 38-55 and I am making up a throating reamer so I can by degrees try and match the old Sharps leade. My expiriments so far have got me convinced that I will shoot my next Buffalo with a paper patched bullet.

    Now for the bad news..

    Quoting Ned Roberts...
    "By the 1890's we had determined that the naked lead slug surpassed the paper patch slug when breech seated." This was from the best target guns of the day and were in rifles capable of minute of angle shooting. Paper patch does have some advantage for hunting, but the naked slug was superior in accuracy and that is why the P/P went out of fashion.

  13. #13
    Super Moderator


    Buckshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    So. California
    Posts
    11,563
    Quote Originally Posted by montana_charlie
    I hope to be forgiven for going a bit off topic, here.

    Buckshot, a question about those 'hex' bullets...
    I understand they are shaped that way to comform to the 'rifling method' in the Whitworth and Rigby barrels.
    But (as in starting a bolt into a tapped hole), do you need to 'screw' the cartridge into the chamber as you load so the hex bullet gets lined up and 'threaded' into the hex bore?

    This is just idle curiosity on my part, but others may have more than a passing interest in your answer.
    CM
    ...........The Whitworth is a muzzle loader, so no cartridge involved. Yup, you do screw them in at the muzzle, so to speak . The Rigby's didn't have Whitworth's skewed bore. The closest cartridge gun having a Whitworth type bore form is the Henry. Basicly the Whitworth but with small lands at the intersections of the flats.

    BTW, more conicals were fired out of Whitworths, even in their heyday of the 1860's, as they provided accuracy just as fine and conicals were much cheaper. The patched hexagonal one on the left was produced in a multi-piece swage die. It's design and operation unknown to me. They were about a buck apiece.

    ..................Buckshot
    Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always

    Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner.

    "The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president."

    Shrink the State End the Fed Balance the budget Make a profit Leave an inheritance

  14. #14
    Boolit Master RMulhern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Northeast Louisiana
    Posts
    1,062

    Groam

    "The South died with Stonewall Jackson!"

  15. #15
    Boolit Master yondering's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NW Washington State
    Posts
    1,369
    Quote Originally Posted by abunaitoo View Post
    Can someone tell me what the advantages/disadvantages are to paper patch bullets???
    Are you thinking of paper patching for blackpowder or smokeless? There are some big differences between the two.

    For smokeless, the only disadvantage, if you can call it that, is having to learn a new skill, of paper wrapping bullets.
    Lots of advantages, especially compared to grease groove bullets. A paper patch bullet will do anything a grease groove bullet can do, and then some. Velocities can be easily pushed over 3000 fps, and often you can get higher velocity with a paper patched bullet than you can with jacketed bullets.

    I won't comment on blackpowder use, other than to say I've read enough to know that the methods and requirements are very different.

  16. #16
    I'm A Honcho! montana_charlie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    West of Great Falls, Montana
    Posts
    15,226
    This thread was active in June of 2006.
    Additions may be of interest to some, but I doubt that the author is still reading.
    CM
    Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master yondering's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NW Washington State
    Posts
    1,369
    D'oh! My apologies. I saw the last post before mine was recent, and didn't look at the others.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master 303Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    6,716
    This thread was active in June of 2006.
    Additions may be of interest to some, but I doubt that the author is still reading.
    It's of interst to me. Well, it's fun!

    A comment by KCSO.
    Barrel Life/20,000 rounds ....
    Ummmm .... that's before one needs to change the boolit profile a bit for the next 20,000 rounds!
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  19. #19
    Boolit Bub Patricklaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Meridian, Idaho
    Posts
    33
    I'd really like to hear a little more, from those with actual experience, on the issue of barrel life. It seems that most white paper has a lot of clay in it. Is the bore nice and shiny because the paper is taking off metal? I cast about 1k bullets this weekend and I'm curious to know before I invest a lot of time into this method.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hell Gap Wy
    Posts
    3,594
    Quote Originally Posted by Patricklaw View Post
    I'd really like to hear a little more, from those with actual experience, on the issue of barrel life. It seems that most white paper has a lot of clay in it. Is the bore nice and shiny because the paper is taking off metal? I cast about 1k bullets this weekend and I'm curious to know before I invest a lot of time into this method.
    The chances of you wearing out a rifle barrel in your lifetime with paper patched bullets is pretty slim. Wrap em load em and go have fun.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
    People will forget what you did...
    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check