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Thread: Mihec HG #503 Cramer hollow point

  1. #21
    Boolit Master Russel Nash's Avatar
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    Okay, thanks!

  2. #22
    Boolit Buddy Bulltipper's Avatar
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    Well, I guess I am going to have to ask for some help. I cannot get a good consistancy with my round hollow points. I have been through the temp range and finally settled on about 650, I was using a 50-50 alloy of WW and pb, had poor fill out on the HP until I got too hot and frosted them up. I thought I might have a zinc problem so I emptied the pot and replaced with 50-50 lino and pb and even added a bit of tin, still not consistent. the hp's come out oddly shaped. I read all the other posts about holding the mold straight up and down on release and it hasn't helped. almost looks like the pins are off center when looking at the boolit but the mold looks fine. I am sure it is something I am doing wrong. I just haven't figured it out yet. I am going to try just casting SWC without the HP this afternoon to see how that goes and I will try the 5 side pins to see what they do. If anyone has any advise, I sure would appreciate some help...
    kevin
    "These are not hi-capacity magazines, these are standard capacity magazines. High capacity is belt fed from the can."

  3. #23
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Bulltipper;
    I am casting at a thermometer registered 750 degrees. I pre-heat the mould almost up to casting temp while the bullet metal is melting.

    I am "up to casting temp" within a couple of casts. The trick is to wait six seconds after the sprue changes color. This gives the lead around the hollow point pin time to set. I just sized 500+ of these and noticed two that had spread the pentagonal opening until it cracked. That is simply trying to move too fast.

    My alloy this time was 50/50 WW's/lead +2% tin. You need hotter than normal (normal being 650-700 for me) to keep the pins hot so you get good fill out around the pin.

    You're close to having the knack. Just keep at it after raising the heat a bit.

    I have a little manicurists fan pointing down at my mould that speeds up the cooling of the sprue. I don't use it all the time, just when the mould gets a little hotter than I like (takes too long for the sprue to set).

    By the way, this soft alloy is intended for the .44 Special at 900-1000 fps. I will probably go to WW's/lead 80/20 for the higher velocities of the .44 magnum (1200-1400 fps).

    Dale53

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy Bulltipper's Avatar
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    Thanks Dale! will try right after lunch.
    kevin
    "These are not hi-capacity magazines, these are standard capacity magazines. High capacity is belt fed from the can."

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy Jaybird62's Avatar
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    I experienced the same issue with one of the pentagonal pins hanging up. I took a flat bladed screwdriver and wedged it between the legs on the pin and gave it a little twist. I tried this a couple of times and got it to work, slick as a mole.

    I had some 50:50 WW:Lino in my RCBS pot, so I got started trying to cast with that alloy. Didn't work out so well. I worked with this mould off and on for a week over at least four casting sessions trying to figure it out. I had boiled the mould and pins in dish soapy water for 30 minutes previously to remove the oils. I tried running this mould clean with temps between 725 and 750. I started with the pentagonal pins and the boolits stuck to the pins nearly every time. I probably ran through 5 or 6 pounds of alloy and still no joy. Inspection showed 95% of boolits had wrinkles and voids around the HP. It looked like some of the alloy was forming around the pin so tightly that pin base was imprinting in the nose of the boolit, which was the cause for their sticking to the pins. Too much heat. I tried smoking the cavities and the pins. Didn't work. I Kroiled the pins three times and went through more than enough to get the mould up to temp and bake on the Kroil. Still didn't work. I switched to the medium pin and switched to a 3:1 alloy of pure Pb and Lino 725 to 750... still stuck with them clean, smoked and Kroiled. I dropped the temp to 630 and the sticking wasn't a bad of a problem with the Kroil treatment, but the noses were still ugly. Then, I spied my can of mould release on the shelf, pulled the pins and gave them a spray. WOW! Now, I love this mould! Probably 90% of boolits dropped are great. I'm heading out to the shop now to measure and weigh a few from last night's casting session.

    Great work, Miha.

  6. #26
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Hollow point bullets require relatively soft bullets to work well. I prefer that they mushroom and hold together. This requires a rather soft, malleable alloy. Antimonial alloys are much more brittle than lead/tin alloys. The amount of antimony can be controlled by the addition of soft lead to your WW base. Glen Fryxell has several excellent articles on hollow point bullets. Here is an example:

    http://www.lasc.us/FryxellExpansionOfCastHP.htm

    It is possible that the use of high antimony lead alloys may be partially responsible for some people having problems with the hollow point pins not wanting to release the bullets. I can't offer a personal experience as my casting of these bullets has been with WW's/soft lead 50/50 and WW's/soft lead 80/20 for .44 Special loads and .44 Magnum loads, respectively.

    While I have not had to use it, as yet, the idea of using a mould release compound on the nose of the hollow point pins sounds good to me. Certainly worth a try.

    Just a thought or two.

    Dale53

  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy Bulltipper's Avatar
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    I have only been casting boolits for a short time, but I have noticed that each mold, like a woman, (especially during break in) has its own distinct personality quirks. Given time and patience a persistant guy can work them out and have great success. OR you can beat on it with a hardwood stick and cuss up a blue streak. (not the woman...)
    "These are not hi-capacity magazines, these are standard capacity magazines. High capacity is belt fed from the can."

  8. #28
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    Bulltipper;
    Your analogy is spot on! After break in, most moulds become a lot easier to handle.

    Different types, whether different in number of cavities, materials that they are made from, or bullet style require a bit different handling. Keeping notes on each mould is a good idea. After casting bullets for about sixty years, I tend to "wing it" and seldom have a serious problem. However, I have cast several hundred thousand bullets - that DOES tend to make a difference.

    Frankly, I still enjoy bullet casting. Especially when using the fine moulds that MiHec and NOE are producing for us. The good old days are NOW!

    Dale53

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I had some trouble with the pentagonal pin and boolits sticking. Not quite sure why because they are smooth and have good taper but... I tried hotter and that helped, didn't solve it but helped. Next time I will try some release on the pins.

    However, the two round pins drop the boolits easily. I had expected the small round pin to be a problem didn't have any trouble at all with either.

    All in all this mould produces about the best boolits I have seen. I am very happy with it and the boolits it produces! The mould itself is a work of art too.

    Also, I will repeat something I tried because my fat fingers tend to lose small things like the clips for the hollow point pins. I have a bunch of thin round magnets about 3/4" diameter and 1/4" thick. I set one of those on the mould next to the pin when removing the clips. The clips jump right to the magnet and stick. I did guide them a little and worked over a piece of paper just in case but that worked slick. I even changed hollow point pins with a hot mould that way with no problems. I also put one magnet in the mould "bits" container so the pins, clips, allen wrenches and every thing is stuck to the magnet ~ no looking for little things that might have gotten away!

    I haven't shot for accuracy yet as our range is closed while the ice thaws out of the road ~ it is currently a mud hole. I did do some crude expansion tests in the bush and posted first results. I did some more last weekend and will get them written up and posted soon.

    Longbow

  10. #30
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    heat and speed and bullshop lube are your freinds with these brass molds.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    Dang!
    Wish ya'll would re-run this buy!! I just bought a .44 Spec. and my Wife's Uncle just bought a .44 Mag.!!!!
    Yep, checked with Miha, said he was out of them.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    At first I had trouble with the boolits dropping off the pentagon pins so I applied a small amount of Miha's lube with a q-tip to the pin tips and the boolits started dropping more easily immediately.

    Ward
    "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." —Theodore Roosevelt"

  13. #33
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    RE: the above post....that ain't Mihec's lube.......that is Bullshop's Sprue Plate Lube. It is an amazing concoction. I started using it on my hp pins when they started to hang up and now I get perfect HP boolits every time.

    You can buy more from Bullshop (listed at the bottom of this page) and it will go a long way. I have two bottles from years ago and I would not think of casting any mold without it.
    Pax Nobiscum Dan (Crash) Corrigan

    Currently casting, reloading and shooting: 223 Rem, 6.5x55 Sweede, 30 Carbine, 30-06 Springfield, 30-30 WCF, 303 Brit., 7.62x39, 7.92x57 Mauser, .32 Long, 32 H&R Mag, 327 Fed Mag, 380 ACP. 9x19, 38 Spcl, 357 Mag, 38-55 Win, 41 Mag, 44 Spcl., 44 Mag, 45 Colt, 45 ACP, 454 Casull, 457 RB for ROA and 50-90 Sharps. Shooting .22 LR & 12 Gauge seldom and buying ammo for same.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash Corrigan View Post
    RE: the above post....that ain't Mihec's lube.......that is Bullshop's Sprue Plate Lube. It is an amazing concoction. I started using it on my hp pins when they started to hang up and now I get perfect HP boolits every time.

    You can buy more from Bullshop (listed at the bottom of this page) and it will go a long way. I have two bottles from years ago and I would not think of casting any mold without it.
    Not correctly.....

    The lube included with my molds is NOT Bullshop.....


    It is just MP-sprue lube
    Just to be clear

    Of course, Bullshop's lube is similar (I have it, too)
    www.MP-MOLDS.com

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  15. #35
    Boolit Buddy
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    Doesn't putting sprue plate lube on the pins cause wrinkles???

  16. #36
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    Rickk;
    Do it like you do the sprue plate with sprue plate lube. Heat the pins, use a Q-tip, wipe the pin and immediately wipe it off. It will leave just a thin film.

    I plan to use NEI mould release on mine (microfine graphite in an alcohol carrier). Nothing left but the graphite. That is, if I have problems. So far, I haven't.

    Dale53

  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy TDC's Avatar
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    I've been following this thread looking for solutions to the sticking problem with the HP pins.

    I have the #503 6 cavity without the pins. I also have the .452 with the five sided pins that have been sticking on occasion. Today I used mold release on the pins for the first time and the result was wonderful...

    Where I used to have to whack the mold handles about five times to get the boolits to drop they dropped off on their own or with one very light tap. I cast about 300 boolits without needing to re-apply the release. I think I can anticipate the same result with my .41 pins and my .502 pins when it arrives.

    I'd suggest anyone who has mold release available give it a try first. Prepare your mold as usual, then just spray the pins alone with release. The result with this particular mold was amazing... It may be the easiest and most dependable solution...
    "Hindsight is always so much more accurate than foresight, but well considered foresight so much more valuable." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

  18. #38
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    Did some informal snow penetration tests. Snow is very simualar to wet print for expansion. Heres what weve come up with so far. Cast out of 5050 #2 and pure the hex pin disinigrated and left a very small shank. Cast out of 1-20 same results. The round pin did slightly better with some weight retention and mushrooming with the harder alloy but the 1-20 didnt hold up. I would like to repeat the testing with the small round hp pin as i think it may be the best compromize with this bullet. All bullets were shot out of a 4 5/8s 44 specail using 16 grains of 2400. keep in mind that changing velocity or alloy could change all of this but id like to throw one more thing at you for thought. A couple years ago I shot a 1000lb buffalo with the lyman devestator using a simular alloy in testing and in that circumstance it performed well. It too did loose its nose but though the hp is just as radicaly wide it is shallower which left more bullet shank when it did loose its nose. Loosing the nose isnt nessisarily a bad thing. The nosler partitions have been doing it for years with great success but they to are designed to leave a substantial shank after doing it. The shank on my devesator gave complete penetration on that buffalo and i know for this testing that the shank left over with this bullet wouldnt be enough to insure it. I think that if we did another run of these bullets or if milhec could supply a pin as wide as the medium one but shallow enough that the hp wouldnt quite reach the first driving band this would be a much better game bullet.
    Last edited by Lloyd Smale; 03-08-2010 at 08:09 AM.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  19. #39
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    LLoyd;
    That is about what I expected. The pentagonal pin should work very well with the "Skeeter" load. There is considerable difference with hollow points when the velocity is 900-950 compared with 1100-1200 fps.

    The small pin, I expect will work well at 1200-1400 (.44 magnum velocities). My original plan was for this to give us modest expansion, hold together, and give good penetration for deer size game. Again, the alloy has to be "correct" for the purpose.

    The weather is getting warmer around here. I expect to be able to do some work with these in a couple of weeks or so. I'll report my findings, also.

    I also expect to have to "juggle" the alloy between being too hard for the expansion desired (at a particular velocity) and too soft for proper accuracy. We are going to have some fun with these, that's for sure. I expect that most of us will be a lot more knowledgeable about these by this time next year.

    I have some certified pure lead and tin in addition to harder alloys available to me. That will allow me a wide range of possibilities. In my particular case, I won't need thousands of these bullets and can use materials that I might not want to do for everyday use. That way I will not be "cash limited" for best results.

    Here is my starting place:
    1 - .44 Special general use velocities of 950 fps with pentagonal pin
    alloy of 50/50 WW's/soft lead + 2% tin
    will also try 20/1 lead/tin

    2 - 1200 fps (high end .44 Special and low end .44 Magnum velocities)
    large round pin and alloy of 80/20 WW's/lead +2% tin
    will also try 16/1 lead/tin

    3 - 1200-1400 fps (high end .44 mag velocities) with small round pin
    Alloy WW's+2% tin
    Will also try 16/1 lead/tin

    It will be interesting to see how close my "predictions" are.

    Lloyd, thanks for sharing your observations.

    Dale53

  20. #40
    Boolit Buddy Daddyfixit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potsy View Post
    Dang!
    Wish ya'll would re-run this buy!! I just bought a .44 Spec. and my Wife's Uncle just bought a .44 Mag.!!!!
    Yep, checked with Miha, said he was out of them.
    YES! how long before a re-run of this one!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check