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Thread: Mihec HG #503 Cramer hollow point

  1. #101
    Boolit Master & Generous Contributor

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    I have to agree with Lefty. You are using more than 2% tin now.
    If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.
    Samuel Adams

    Sam

  2. #102
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    Thanks for all the good info.

    Cooked Felix lube yesterday and had my surprises.

    Best regards, Rup

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    One issue I did have was that I had several tight spots in my bore under dovetails and roll stamping. Even with fat boolits I got leading so lapped the tight spots out and that solved the problem.
    Longbow
    Hi Longbow

    What exactly is the procedure to lap the tight spots out?

  4. #104
    Boolit Master 35 Whelen's Avatar
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    I forgot about this thread! I shot a small buck with one of these bullets cast from the larger round HP pin. Bhn 9.5 and MV was somewhere a little under 1000 fps. The buck was about 45 yds. out when I hit him low at the back of his front leg. The bullet went through his leg, into the chest cavity where it creased the heart then broke a rib and exited out the back of the far leg. He gimped off over a little rise about 25 yds. and gave it up.





    I felt like the bullet expanded judging from the crease across his heart, but after I skinned him had no doubt that the bullet had expanded. There was quite a bit of bloodshot meat in both front legs as well as on the ribcage and the exit wound was about half again larger than the diameter of the bullet.

    ETA- I finished cutting up the buck for jerky tonight and took a good look at the front quarter where the bullet passed and exited. WOW, what a bloodshot mess:
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    35W
    Last edited by 35 Whelen; 01-10-2014 at 11:41 PM.
    "Only accurate rifles are interesting." -Col. Townsend Whelen.
    NRA Life Member
    Certified Texas Hunter Education Instructor

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by womblrup View Post
    Hi there

    As a newbe I casted my first bullets out of recovered range scrap + 2,2% tin. I am planning to load .44 mag Geco cases, CCI 300 primer, start load 8gn of Alliant Herco. Want to use it for my RBH 5,5" barrel length as a light target/accuracy load (MIP >= 450 or ca. 900fps) and in my Marlin 336 with micro grove 20" barrel.
    My mould drops 0,434". Pushed it without lube through the drum of the RBH -> diameter 0,4325", barrel 0,4295" and into the barrel of the Marlin -> 0,4328". Ordered a 0,432" oversized Lee sizer set and a Lee hardness test kit. Thats how far I am in the loading progress.

    Attachment 90039

    That is what came out of the Marlin barrel - mind the deep hole my pushrod made at the back of the bullet.

    Attachment 90040

    And the nose shortened as well when pushing it backwards out (left). Rifling of RBH (middle) and drum probe with dented nose (right).

    Does it makes sence to try loading and shooting or would it be wise to remelt and add more tin?
    What do I need to look after to achieve accuracy?

    Please comment and advice.
    Received Lee hardness test kit. 5 measurements gave results between 8 and 10 BHN which seems to be believable values to me.
    Cooked another bunch of Felix lube, pan lubed and sized to 0,432. Loaded to OAL 43mm / 1,693" using 9,0 gr of Alliant Herco. 10shot average speed out of 5,5" RBH was 292,7m/s or 960ft/s. Accuracy 20shot, 20m, standing using both hands was 192 rings out of 200, about the same results as a .45 LesBaer PPC 6" 5x more expensive boolit launcher or compared with 180 rings with 9mm HK P30L plastic. No leading or change in accuracy after 100 shots.
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    Diameter of the 10 is 2,0" / 50mm.
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    Still 2mm / 0,08" unused space in the Ruger drum!

    OAL 43mm / 1,693" was too long to leave the tubular magazine of the Marlin 336 and jammed. With single feed through the exit the action could not be closed. OAL 42,5mm was better, single loaded closed but rifling imprinted on the boolits. OAL 42,2mm cycled without any problems and much smoother than the factory ammo I have tried yet.

    I am quite impressed with this first results. My deep respect to Elmer Keith and his work, especially after reading 35 Whelen´s hunting report.

  6. #106
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    womblrup:

    Let me start by saying I am no expert on lapping but since my Marlin was not performing I decided if I messed up the barrel I would buy a new one and with faster twist as well so no real loss to me.

    Now since I have a microgroove barrel, rifling is particularly shallow so I really wasn't sure if I would have any rifling left when I finished. Nonetheless, I decided to go for it.

    So, I made a lapping slug and to be honest, I cannot remember if I cast one specifically for lapping or if I used a groove diameter boolit.

    In any case, my procedure:

    - I drilled a 1/4" hole through the slug using my little lathe,

    - turned the end of a 5/16" steel rod down to 1/4",

    - threaded the turned down rod to 1/4" - 20 UNC,

    - turned two 1/4" hex nuts down to make sure they did not rub rifling,

    - threaded one nut onto the turned portion of the rod,

    - slipped the drilled boolit over the rod,

    - threaded another nut onto the rod to hold the lapping boolit in place,

    - hung the rod down the barrel and tapped the boolit into the bore to engrave then pulled it right through,

    - dripped oil into the bore then ran the lapping slug through a few times to make it looser and smooth to push,

    - slowly slid the slug through the bore to find the tight spots,

    - marked the rod,

    - pulled the slug out and coating with valve lapping compound (coarser than would have liked at 425 grit IIRC, but all I could get),

    - slid the lapping slug back into the bore,

    - put a bore guide in place so the steel rod would not touch the bore,

    - worked the lap back and forth at each tight spot until the tightness was gone,

    - made a few full length strokes in the barrel,

    - then made a series of increasingly long strokes from throat to muzzle so there was more working near the chamber than muzzle for slight choke effect,

    - cleaned the lapping compound out of the bore and marveled at the fact I still had rifling and the entire bore appeared smoother and shinier than before lapping ~ even with slightly coarse lapping compound

    After lapping accuracy had improved and leading was gone with loads that previously leaded.

    Some cast a lead slug into the barrel after wiping an oily rag through to make a lapping slug. I think as long as the lapping slug is groove diameter and can be started into the bore to engrave it then coated with lapping compound it will work.

    You have to go slow and careful and I will say don't lap any more than you need to to get rid of the tight spots. You are effectively wearing your barrel by lapping. If done correctly there should be no damage and bore should be improved especially if there were tool marks or in my case, tight spots.

    Fire lapping might work as well and I did not try that so no experience with fire lapping for me. I was concerned that fire lapping might not take the tight spots out without lapping the whole bore. I wanted to remove the tight spots without doing much work to the rest of the bore.

    So that's what I did and it seems to have worked out for me.

    There may also be a sticky or a procedure in Castpics (link at the bottom of the page ~ lots of good info there if you haven't looked).

    Longbow

  7. #107
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    Hi Longbow

    Thanks for Your good info.

    Best regards, womblrup

  8. #108
    Mihec - I missed out on this buy. Are there any spares left over?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old School Big Bore View Post
    Mihec - I missed out on this buy. Are there any spares left over?
    .

    It would be best to PM MiHec. He may not visit this thread.

    Good luck, Sam
    If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.
    Samuel Adams

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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old School Big Bore View Post
    Mihec - I missed out on this buy. Are there any spares left over?
    I have no idea how I missed the GB myself.

    I PM'd Mihec a few days ago and I received and paid my invoice for this mold this morning. If the shipping times hold true, I should have this in my hands in about two weeks.

    I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread from all the past buys. This looks like it will be a good one in my 29's & SRH's.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by womblrup View Post
    Cooked another bunch of Felix lube, pan lubed and sized to 0,432. Loaded to OAL 43mm / 1,693" using 9,0 gr of Alliant Herco. 10shot average speed out of 5,5" RBH was 292,7m/s or 960ft/s. Accuracy 20shot, 20m, standing using both hands was 192 rings out of 200, ...
    OAL 43mm / 1,693" was too long to leave the tubular magazine of the Marlin 336 and jammed. With single feed through the exit the action could not be closed. OAL 42,5mm was better, single loaded closed but rifling imprinted on the boolits. OAL 42,2mm cycled without any problems and much smoother than the factory ammo I have tried yet.
    Next load was modified to work better in the Marlin 336 microgroove barrel. Case mouth shortened to 32,2mm 1,268" to fit into the crimp groove. 8,1 gn Alliant Herco gave 1140ft/s speed with good accuracy.
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    10 shot 50m, diameter of the 10 is 50mm / 2".
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    Dogs are the better people. At least they have no problems with other people guns!

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blammer View Post
    I got mine in the mail today too.

    I didn't even clean it, I just put the pins in heated the pot and started casting. About 10 fills later I was getting keepers, so I cast up a pile of them. Couldn't stand it so I sized and loaded some too.









    and the loaded ammo



    I'm very impressed with the mould.

    I'll test a few for accuracy, but suspect it will be good.

    Now there's a groundhog around here, let's see if he'll cooperate for the expansion testing.
    accuracy with a 2 inch barrel?

  13. #113
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    Hate to resurrect an old thread...but does anyone shoot this boolit with H110? Small HP preferably. Seems like that combo would hold together at rifle speeds...
    You never know how you rank amongst men 'til you have seen what will break another man.
    The original "Bluejay" US Army/ US Navy 1945-1970.

  14. #114
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    All the following were cast from Roto Metals 20:1. All the small HP pin for the #503
    Shot from a 6" 629. 18.0gr Alliant 2400. Blocks are 16" long Clear Ballistics gel, covered w/ 2 layers of cloth. Velocity data if listed on picture is the actual chronographed velocity of the picured shot on impact or the average velocity of the group:
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    23gr H110 fired from 7.5" Super Blackhawk Hunter:
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    Penetration proportionately decreased in relation to expansion as would be expected, thus higher impact velocity= larger expansion + LESS penetration. I have not tested these out of a rifle length barrel. We need to consider what the impact velocity will be at the range to target. Impact velocity from a 80-100yd shot might more closely approximate that of a pistol at 5 yds.

    My suspicion is that this bullet with the small pins at ~1700fps out of a rifle, cast from 16:1 at short ranges is not likely to hold together. Speculation: <50yd rifle velocity would do better with the small pin, length reduced in half. It would be easier to cast as well. If anyone has a spare set of sacrificial long pins I'd be willing to purchase and modify, and eventally report back. I'd just need to find a local friend with a .44 rifle
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  15. #115
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    KVO. If you have a NEF or HR shotgun I will loan you a 44 barrel to test with. Might be able to find a shotgun then scrounge up one. I love mine. I have 4. I love them all. With the right bullets they make a great truck gun.


    Thanks sir. I actually crono’ed the load yesterday. 50/50 air cooled with the small pin end weight 258 grains went 1870 FPS behind 23.0 grains of 300 MP and a WLPP. 1.5 inch group at 100.

    Should be wicked deer medicine.
    Last edited by bluejay75; 07-07-2019 at 02:43 PM.
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  16. #116
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    Using BlueJay's staring velocity (1870fps) in relation to range, credit Strelok+ ballistics app. I based the BC on the NOE version of the #503. *Edit- I think the temp vs velocity was a bit off when I generated this chart hence slightly lower MV*Click image for larger version. 

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    Reference that to tested expansion velocities above. Bear in mind that anything more than tiny amounts of antimony are likely to result in fragmentation, and it would be wise to go heavy on the tin... If you want weight retention. Some folks like grenades and that's ok too.

  17. #117
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    But big fragments hopefully. I have a box of compressed paper that Im going to test them on this week. Thanks a lot. I think your work helped me find my hunting load this year.
    You never know how you rank amongst men 'til you have seen what will break another man.
    The original "Bluejay" US Army/ US Navy 1945-1970.

  18. #118
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    Gun and test platform. Powder coated #503 solids, 18.3gr Alliant 2400, Starline brass, WLP primers. 25 yd from the bench off of sandbags. I can't do this every time on command, but this load and gun combo perform darn close and very consistently. My groups run about 3" at 50yd on a good day and get much bigger further down range. 6 shots @25yd:
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  19. #119
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    For comparison's sake... 357 magnum out of a 20" Winchester 1892. Blue are MP 359-640 cup point HP, uncoated is 360-640 solid, both 20:1. Load data on pics. Haven't chronographed these yet but plan to.
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    Last edited by KVO; 07-07-2019 at 07:50 PM.

  20. #120
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    Excellent advice...

    After the Small pin HG 503 @ 1850 FPS gave me the first two pics of expansion at 20 yards, I took your advice and milled down the all 4 large pins to cup points.

    Im ok with the expansion. Boolit shed 65 grains but the expansion lets me know that the large pin turned to cup will expand.
    You never know how you rank amongst men 'til you have seen what will break another man.
    The original "Bluejay" US Army/ US Navy 1945-1970.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check