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Thread: Mauser - Large ring? Small ring?

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    Mauser - Large ring? Small ring?

    I am new to milsurps of any kind and am looking at getting a Mauser. I have noticed references to large and small rings. What is that a reference to and does it make a difference? It seems from reading that manufacture in different countries determined size of ring. Currently, the mausers that are readily available are Yugoslavian. Are these large or small ring?


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    Boolit Master
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    L Ring
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    L Ring
    What is a "L Ring"?


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    Boolit Master madsenshooter's Avatar
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    L is for large.

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    Looks like I posted this in the wrong forum. Can a moderator please move it to the Military rifles forum.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13


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    OK, so a Yugo mauser has a large ring. Where is the ring and what does it do?
    Is that better or worse than having a small ring? Can someone point me to where there is more info of this type about mausers?


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    Boolit Master
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    The diameter of the front receiver ring is larger in the large ring. You can identify them very quickly by simply looking for a step between the outer left side rail and the front receiver ring. On a small ring there is no step and the side rail flows smoothly into the front receiver ring. Most military and commercial 98's will be large ring. There are some exceptions such as the Brno 21 and 22 series and the military G33/40 action. Also the earlier Mausers such as the M96 were small ring.

    A quality small ring is a great candidate to build a slighly lighter rifle on for most standard head size cartridges like 7X57, 270 Win, 30-06 etc. Some people have done magnums on them but the weight saving for a heavier recoiling cartridge doesn't have a lot of value in my opinion. The large ring is probably a better choice for magnums if you swing that way. Some custom gunsmiths re-contour large rings to small ring dimensions just to confuse you. They may reduce just the sides of the large ring or the top and sides.

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    The 'ring' is just a term for the forward part of the rifle's reciever, on Mauser actions it is round. That's the part that the barrel screws into and it has the locking lug recesses in it. The locking lugs are on the front of the bolt on most bolt action rifles, so in general the large ring is associated with a stronger action. It's not important as long as the cartridge is appropriate for the action. The Yugos are large ring Mauser 98 type actions, considered the strongest of the Mauser series of rifles. Again, there is nothing wrong with the small ring models, just that they are built for lower pressure cartridges than the large ring 98 type. The yugo is a perfectly fine rifle, you should think about getting one while they are still affordable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SciFiJim View Post
    What is a "L Ring"?
    ............That'd be shorthand for "Large Ring" . Thesmall ring Bolt action Mausers (1889, 1890, 1891, 1893, 1894, 1895, and 1896) have a action ring of about 1.3" OD and the left wall of the action, if you were to lay a ruler alongside it, would be straight back to the bridge as would the right rail. They were all 2 lug bolts and did not have locking bolt shrouds. They were all cock on closeing actions, and were all of the same length.



    A M38 (1896 Swede) small ring. The action ring and left action wall are the same OD.

    The Large Ring Mausers have an action ring of about 1.4" OD, with the ring exending beyond the left wall and right rail, and the OD of the bridge. While the action ring is larger in OD, it's wall thickness is about the same thickness as the small ring's. Internal to the action ring is an internal shoulder with the 3 o'clock position broached through for the claw of the extractor. The actions were made in several lengths.



    A M1909 ( Argentine contract 1898 Mauser) large ring action. The action ring extends beyond the left action wall. Right photo may be clearer, and is a VZ24/47 large ring M98 type.

    The bolt of the Large ring Mauser has 2 forward locking lugs plus a 3rd non bearing 'safety' lug, which occupies a milled out relief in the floor of the action at the 6 o'clock postion under the bridge. The large ring Mauser labeled the 1898 has enhanced escaped gas handleing capabilities over the small ring Mauser. This includes a larger bolt shroud to divert gases passing back along the bolt. The bolt shroud is also locking.

    There is a myriad of detail differences in the 'so called' large ring actions. Some 'small' large rings, some actions with external large ring characteristics but taking a small ring barrel shank. Some large ring actions had the internal front ring shoulder broached through at both the 3 AND 9 o'clock positions. There are many other if, ands, and butts.

    All the German actions were manufactured basically utilizing 'non-strategic' alloying ingredients, and were essentially made of common low carbon steel. To enhance strengh and longevity, certain wear and pressure surfaces were selectively case hardened to give a hard wear resistant surface.

    ...............Buckshot
    Last edited by Buckshot; 02-05-2010 at 03:01 AM.
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    That's what I was gonna say.

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    To throw another wrench into the fire, a Turkish Mauser is physically a Large Ring design, but the barrels use the same threads as a Small Ring design. Confusing, right?

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    j20owner :

    May I also add...............

    The majority of Turk actions have internal threads that are small ring. However you'll find some Turk actions that have internal threads that are large ring. If you are buying a Turk action at a gun show, it pays to pay close attention.

    Ben

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben View Post
    j20owner :

    May I also add...............

    The majority of Turk actions have internal threads that are small ring. However you'll find some Turk actions that have internal threads that are large ring. If you are buying a Turk action at a gun show, it pays to pay close attention.

    Ben
    Really, I was under the impression that all Turks were small-ring threads. See, it is confusing.

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    That'd be shorthand for "Large Ring" . buckshot

    I don't know shorthand, lrg rng mwsr
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    I`m not going to stir this pot much...but! My WW 1 Erfurt 8mm is a small ring with a 1918/20 stamp on the front small reciever ring. Bought it when I was 15 at a Gambles hardware store from a rack that had 6 of them, if I remember back that far for $25 each.Robert

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcast416taylor View Post
    I`m not going to stir this pot much...but! My WW 1 Erfurt 8mm is a small ring with a 1918/20 stamp on the front small reciever ring. Bought it when I was 15 at a Gambles hardware store from a rack that had 6 of them, if I remember back that far for $25 each.Robert
    25.00,That brought a tear to my eye!!!!!!!!!!!
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    I have a Turkish Mauser I had rebarreled to 6.5-06. I found out later this is a 91 that the reciever was remachined for a third locking lug and a different magazine. It has a bolt that is longer than a normal 98 and the trigerguard is also longer.

    I found this out when reading some of my really old magazines and there was an article describing what was done to update these rifles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben View Post
    j20owner :

    May I also add...............

    The majority of Turk actions have internal threads that are small ring. However you'll find some Turk actions that have internal threads that are large ring. If you are buying a Turk action at a gun show, it pays to pay close attention.

    Ben
    ..........All of the outwardly appearing 1898 type actions produced (actions built) in Turkey took small ring barrel shanks. They'll be stamped on the action ring:
    TC
    ASFA
    ANKARA
    K. KALE
    1938 (or other date)

    If they do NOT show the K Kale marking they are foreign made actions the Turks reworked and will be TRUE large ring actions, taking large ring barrel shanks. I have a Turkish Model M38 that was an Imperial German action, and a true large ring.

    .............Buckshot
    Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always

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  19. #19
    The most important difference is heat treatment. Many of the common earlier small ring mausers like the spainish 93 and 95 are softer on the surface than the l 98's which are mostly large ring. Most small rings are not as strong. By the way there are small ring 98's that are strong. For cast bullet loads there is no problem with pressure. No gunsmith in his right mind however would set up a small ring 93 or 95 in a magnum caliber. Even those that are in .308 should have their headspace checked from time to time. If you reload for these rifles, keep your pressures to no more than what they were designed for. I will make a possible exception for the swedish 96's. I am not sure about what steel and heat treatment those actions received.
    A good cartridge for the small rings are the 250-3000 or stick to the original military chambering like 7 mm mauser etc. I am not sure about the turk 8 mm small rings and what loads they can use. Some 8mmx57 machine gun ammo is hot.

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