Lil Help for a friend if you please

[TCLouis]

I told him that all we spoke here was Boolits and then some folks coated them with paper.

I will loan him my Lee 255 grain 45 mold if that will work.

Anyway on with his request . . .

Having watched “Tombstone” too many times I have (re)started my interest in cowboy guns.

Found a Uberti 1876 Winchester rifle and need to reload for it. (.45-60).

As usual, I have weird ideas and am considering paper-patched .45 pistol bullets (255 grains, .455 up to .458). Shot some of those from a .45-70 once upon a time. It wasn’t under proper test conditions so I really can’t say if they were accurate but they did work. Weight/twist/velocity???

Any reloading information (smokeless) would be appreciated.

[pdawg_shooter]

No loads for a 45-60 but the same bullet will work for a 45-70. Pick your bullet, size to bore diameter +.001/.0015. Wrap with 2 wraps of 16# paper, let dry, lube and size to groove diameter + .001/.003 or as big as will fit the throat of your rifle. Load and go shooting!

[303Guy]

And just an alternative idea - dry wrap and twist tighten. I do that 'cause I find it easier and the paper doesn't tear.

[yondering]

No loads for a 45-60 but the same bullet will work for a 45-70. Pick your bullet, size to bore diameter +.001/.0015. Wrap with 2 wraps of 16# paper, let dry, lube and size to groove diameter + .001/.003 or as big as will fit the throat of your rifle. Load and go shooting!

That's pretty easy, but you can leave out a couple details, it doesn't have to be complicated:

- No need to size your bullet to bore diameter before patching. Just patch it as cast. This works fine even if the bare bullet is a few thousands larger than groove diameter. Normal grease groove bullets work fine, smooth sided designs aren't necessary.

- Paper can be just plain old printer paper, it works as well as any. Wet the patches for a minute or so in some warm water, then wrap. The patch will shrink down tight on the bullet when it dries.

- Lubing the paper isn't necessary. A little case sizing wax applied before final sizing of the wrapped bullet can help, but lube that will soak into the paper is detrimental, in some cases at least. You want your sizer to compress that paper hard around the bullet, excess lube in the paper will prevent this.

Blackpowder will be a little different, but you asked about smokeless.

[303Guy]

A little case sizing wax applied before final sizing of the wrapped bullet can help,

It can help a lot, I've found. A patched boolit that just can't be finger seated will seat easily with wax lube. It'll stop the neck friction moving the patch on the boolit. It also facilitates chambering a patched boolit that is a wee bit tight in the bore. That's with plain 'ol printer paper - it's compressable but has high surface drag. Plain 'ol printer paper is actually pretty good stuff with a few desirable properties for patching. It's ability to size down is one of them. It 'glues' itself together when wet wrapped. And it works in a printer properly for printed patch patterns. It's a good choice in my opinion.

[yondering]

303guy, good points. You mentioned the boolit moving in the patch, have you encountered this with wet wrapped patches, or just dry wrapped? I've never run into that problem, but I always wet wrap. Have you tried knurling the bullet with a file before wrapping, to prevent movement in the patch?

[303Guy]

I have encountered the patch moving but that's due to the boolit taper and too tight a fit in the case mouth. I've had it with both wet and dry wrapping. I'v found that if the case neck is properly belled and tapered and the patch waxed, the case will slide over, press the patch against the boolit, causing the patch to grip the boolit and stay in place. In short, it's a matter of fine tuning the technique. I have tride knurling the boolit and that works too. Sizing the wrapped boolit for uniformity would also eliminate the problem. I should mention that the reason for the effort I put in is the fact that the bore and throat on some of my guns are in dodgy condition, creating a 'special case' scenario. A new or good gun won't have these issues - or shouldn't, anyway. But for me, it's part of the fun!

[yondering]

I should mention that the reason for the effort I put in is the fact that the bore and throat on some of my guns are in dodgy condition, creating a 'special case' scenario. A new or good gun won't have these issues - or shouldn't, anyway. But for me, it's part of the fun!

Amen to that! That's the beauty of paper patching, it excels in situations where jacketed or lubed cast bullets do poorly. My 35 Whelen, while probably better than some of your guns you mentioned, has a worn and pitted bore (from rust, before I owned it) but my latest paper patch loads gave me 3/4" groups at 100 yards, at higher velocity than jacketed bullets. Similar jacketed loads group 1.5" at best, and lubed cast bullets lead like crazy in this gun at any reasonable velocity.

TCLouis, sorry for hijacking your thread. Is any of this info helpful? Chime in and take back your thread if you want!