310 Lyman dies.

[floodgate]

Here is a scan of the cover from an early Red Head brochure; C. C. Johnson's name and address are pasted over Naramore's, so this must date from the early '40's.

floodgate

[Swagerman]

floodgate, that is indeed interesting history on the redhead press.

Wish the photo was better on the hinge linkage set up, like to see if it differs much from the Tru-line Jr.

Jim

[floodgate]

floodgate, that is indeed interesting history on the redhead press.

Wish the photo was better on the hinge linkage set up, like to see if it differs much from the Tru-line Jr.

Jim

Jim:

Mechanically, it is the same as the early non-compound Tru-Line Jr. linkage, but Johnson was able to get F/L sizing out of it for the straight-case pistol rounds and the shortest bottleneck rifle ones, which Lyman didn't try until the later, compound-linkage ones. In a 1954 brochure he says these were available for .22 Hornet, R-2 Lovell, .38 Spl, .44 Spl. and .32 S&W Short and Long. A few years later, he no doubt added the .222 / .223 family, as Lyman did for the T-L Jr. (I just found - after much searching and asking - a battered but usable 2-die Lyman set with F/L die in .222 Remington, for the later, compound Tru-Line Jr.) The dies (I have seen several) made by Johnson are a world ahead of the Lyman ones in design and quality, but they were essentially custom jobs. The presses (based on a sample of three in the hands of friends, with serial numbers and dated) were made in limited numbers: 150 to 200 units per year. Below is a shot from the 1954 brochure, which may help you see the linkage layout.

floodgate

[Four Fingers of Death]

Grumpy (or Mick):

Can one of you post a couple of photos of a Simplex press? It soundssimilar - but not identical - to the three-station "Red Head" turret press made here from the late '30's into the early '70's, using the Lyman 5/8" x 30 tpi dies and later, more sophisticated variations thereof. Invented by Earl Naramore while he worked at Lyman, but they did not take it up. It was later made and marketed by gunsmith Chas. C. Johnson. It probably stimulated Lyman (belatedly) to introduce their Tru-Line Jr. press in 1949. I don't have one to photograph for comparison; does anyone else here have an example of the Red Head to show us?

floodgate

I am at home at the moment, I have dug out the Simplex and the dies I have, I will take it back to my temporary work abode and set it up and get some pics going. Nice little press.

[grumpy one]

Here are a couple of pictures of my old 5/8" Simplex taken last night. I've made the definition very low to keep the file size down. This is my first attempt to upload anything on this forum. If this works, and if anyone wants more detailed pics, I have them on hand. I'd best warn people that I've modified one of the two sizing dies you can see - I moved the expander plug up high on the decapping rod. The other one, with the low-mounted expander plug, is the original design

Geoff

[Swagerman]

Grumpy one, that little Simplex press looks pretty cool with its six die station turret. Thanks for the pictures.

My Lyman Tru-line Jr. only has four.

Anyone know what the Simplex 5/8 die thread is in tpi. I know it's supposed to be smaller than the Lyman 30 tpi.

Do you have any trouble with that small a thread tpi getting scratched or deformed.

Jim

[floodgate]

Grumpy one:

Thanks for the fine photos; looks like that is a nice little press. The operating linkage is very similar to the Red-Head's. Looks like primer seating depth is controlled by the stop screw on the near (RH) side of the press, and alignment of the sliding shell block is maintained by the fixed guide rod at the back; what is the "lump" below the shell-block at the rear, a rubber cushion? The Red-Head does not rely on indexing dimples to locate the turet's rotational position; if you look at my shots above, from the brochure, you can see a pointed peg mounted on the shell-block between the shellholder and the main column; this slides into a closely-bored hole in the turret and fine-aligns it. It would seem to have made sense to have extended the back post on the Simplex all the way to the turret, to prevent it cocking under sizing pressure - but that would have interfered with the die seats, unless the turret were made larger in diameter, and the stop peg set further out, as on the bigger Lyman All-American Turret model with its standard-sized 7/8" x 14 tpi dies. As you can see, I find these various mechanical systems endlessly fascinating. Thanks for sharing the Simplex info.

floodgate

[grumpy one]

Unless I've missed count it's 26 tpi. Didn't have a thread gauge for that, and had to count.

The sizing dies are file-hard, and just about indestructible. The seating dies aren't all that hard, and the lock rings are soft. I haven't had any problems with thread damage on any of them, but 26 tpi is easier to manage than the 30 tpi of the Lyman 5/8 series in any case. The turrets are just grey cast iron, so of course you could damage the threads in them if you were heavy-handed enough, but you can damage any thread if you try hard I guess.

[grumpy one]

Floodgate,
Here is some more detail. The adjustable stop and the rubber buffer are both part of the primer seating system. You can use the stop for positive seating depth, or use feel if you prefer. The rubber buffer holds the primer away from the primer pocket until you deliberately push down on the operating lever. It is made of some soft synthetic rubber, and squashes down to less than a third of its free height each time you seat a primer.



You can see the effective diameter of the turret rotational detent system from this picture of a turret when it is removed from the press. The detent system uses a spring and ball, passing through the vertical hole that is on something less than one inch radius.



As you say, it is not a very big radius. Simplex brag about using a larger radius, as well as a support post opposite the loading position, in their advertisements for their bigger (7/8X14) presses. I think it is a matter of considering what job you are going to use the press for, and how much value you place on having a compact setup. As I've said before, I seldom use this press now, because I only shoot rifle - but if I were to take up pistol shooting again at fairly low volume, I'd go right back to using this press with the 357 tools you can see on the picture of the turret.

Geoff

[floodgate]

Geoff:

Thanks for the info and the excellent photos. I'll get back to yu when I have had time to chew them over.

Doug

[floodgate]

Unless I've missed count it's 26 tpi. Didn't have a thread gauge for that, and had to count.

The sizing dies are file-hard, and just about indestructible. The seating dies aren't all that hard, and the lock rings are soft. I haven't had any problems with thread damage on any of them, but 26 tpi is easier to manage than the 30 tpi of the Lyman 5/8 series in any case. The turrets are just grey cast iron, so of course you could damage the threads in them if you were heavy-handed enough, but you can damage any thread if you try hard I guess.

Grumpy one (and others):

I checked in my model engineering catalogs and found in an older one from Coles' Power Models that the 26 tpi thread is standard for brass fittings; they listed them from 1/4" through 5/8" diameters, and the BSB (British Standard Brass) 5/8" x 26 tpi takes a 37/64" tap drill. I suspect any modelmaker's source that imports Stuart-Turner casting sets could supply taps and dies in this size. Probably easier to find than that nutball 30 pitch Lyman used for their dies and for a few other items as well (their little Krag / '03 sight adjuster used a 1/4" x 30 thread). I was
able to find a 5/3" x 30 tap in the MSC catalog, but no matching die, which is what I needed to clean up some "bubba'd" dies.

floodgate

[grumpy one]

Thanks Doug, that was a surprise. The guy who loaned me a tap for reworking Simplex turrets many years ago assured me that the thread was British Standard Extra Fine, and I thought I'd traced that thread since. Might be a coincidence that both threads are the same pitch in 5/8 diameter.

In case anybody cares, the idea of the British Standard Brass thread (26 tpi regardless of diameter) was to suit craftsmen using traditional brass lathes, which don't have a toolpost. All tools are hand-held against a rest, like on a wood lathe. To cut a thread on a brass lathe you use a multi-tooth hand-held thread cutting tool and "strike" the thread by (rather skillfully) hauling it to the left as soon as the first tooth starts to cut. You need to have neatly dragged it one 26th of an inch by the time it's rotated one turn. I've watched a craftsman use a brass lathe, and been impressed - they literally make all kinds of things in less than a minute.

[floodgate]

grumpy one:

"In case anybody cares, the idea of the British Standard Brass thread (26 tpi regardless of diameter) was to suit craftsmen using traditional brass lathes, which don't have a toolpost. All tools are hand-held against a rest, like on a wood lathe. To cut a thread on a brass lathe you use a multi-tooth hand-held thread cutting tool and "strike" the thread by (rather skillfully) hauling it to the left as soon as the first tooth starts to cut. You need to have neatly dragged it one 26th of an inch by the time it's rotated one turn. I've watched a craftsman use a brass lathe, and been impressed - they literally make all kinds of things in less than a minute. "

Thanks for the background on the BSB "standard" thread. I've read about working with "gravers", "thread chasers", etc. on old lathes - guess I'll have to have a try at it. I did make up a tool rest for my Smithy that would work for this type of operation.

Did'ja hear that, Buckshot?

Doug

[sav300]

Hello Grump One.Try a web search for "jansa arms"they are the agents for simplex .
Lionel

[TAWILDCATT]

what a coinsidence,I am having 3 heads machined for 7/8 14 die.the original head is going to have one hole in 7/8.I want to put carbide sizer in there.just froze a case in the 45 colt sizing die.
I do 32 acp/32 long in one press.45 colt in another and 9 mm in other [have 4].
look in old gun digest.there is picture of red head.very much like truline.I am working on lee powder measure to drop powder.might have to add another 7/8 hole.
I'll pray for you aussies.in 50 yrs you may toss the basterds out and get freedom.
we are close to your problems with the Dems.Repubs arn't much better.