9mm to .40 CH Die problem

[d_striker]

I just got my dies and was tinkering around with them. This is what I've noticed so far:

-The core seating die is pretty much useless if using 9mm cases as the jacket. The punch is the same (if not larger) diameter than the mouth of the 9mm case. This doesn't allow the punch to seat the lead core and all it does is mangle the case. I even tried to bell the cases so that the punch would fit in the case mouth but it still wouldn't. Does CH sell smaller diameter core seat punches?

I made a few bullets by just using the swaging die like BT Sniper does. I made a few really pretty test bullets but the biggest I could get them to come out to was .390". What am I doing wrong?

[BT Sniper]

I have a few answers for you. Give me a minute or two.

My one base punch I purchased for the 44 cal project didn't last long. It is a very dlicate design and suseptable to damage quite easily. I have since found that a flat design that is just small enough to fit inside the finished diameter bullet jacket is what works best for me. It allows me to seat the core deeper thean top of jacket and still apply enough pressure to fill out to final diameter. Also with a base punch that is of the exact internail size of the core seat die you can seat the core with the case verticaly. There will be no bleed off of excess lead so again this is why I weight sort all the cores and brass.

I'll take some pics of the custome base punches I have used for the core seat dies and post them when I can.

As far as the small diameter. Brass needs to be soft as possible from good anneal and enough pressure needs to be applied. I am not concerned if the rim may be a couple thousands small but the body above the extracter grove should be able to fill out ot bullet diameter.

Got to call it a night. I'll see what else I can come up with. Maybe we could even get you some custom base punches that work.

It is challenging at times. Be sure and get up and take a break when things seem to be going down hill every once in a while.


BT

[d_striker]

BT Sniper to the rescue!

[BT Sniper]

Yeh the wife is starting to notice I spend to much time here. LIke I said don't let the challenges of this hobby get to you. I have had my share and think I have a very good solution to making great bullets with the CH empty die bodies fitted with better parts.

More later,

BT

[d_striker]

Maybe I didn't anneal cases long enough.

I'm really surprised at how soft the CH core seat base punch is. The edges are mangled from the BRASS case mouth. I understand that there is a lot of pressure going on, but come on....Brass shouldn't be able to mangle up a a base punch. I wonder what sort of alloy they used for it.

[CWME]

Not sure what it is made of but it is indeed junk. I used mine to roll over the brass on the nose of 100 or so bullets. I need to make a new one now.

Making one like BT mentioned sounds simple enough. Why can't a bleed hole be drilled into a new one? Use a wire guage drill and drill in 1/8 or 1/4 and then flip it over and bore out the bottom with a 1/8 bit?? Going to try hardning some of the O-1 drill rod I have. Good project to try this on.
Wrap some wire around it for a handle, heat it to glowing cherry red, quench it in oil and keep it moving in the oil until it has cooled of. Bring it back up to a dull red and then let cool. Buddy of mine is a machinist and said it is is pretty simple stuff... Said that about threading too... we will see.

[BT Sniper]

CWME,

I followed the exact route you just mentioned, everything from a new punch with bleed hole to the exact heat treat method.

I'll get some pics of my progression of base punchs on here some day.


As for th eCH base punch for the core seater I can not say...... I never figured out how it would have worked best so really can't offer any advise on that one. I think for it to work correctly it can not come in contact with the jacket, only the soft lead or else it gets mangled. This leaves you with only the exposed lead tipped bullet as your only option.

Not to worry, you guys are allready on the right track to figuring out a better design and for those of you mechanicly challenged there are many of us here that are certainly capibale of make you a better one.


BT

[SWANEEDB]

CORE SEATING PUNCHES. Maybe some of you have aleady tried but what I am going to do is use a large shell holder,anneal and rehardened, maybe have the primer drop hole enlarged and threaded, make some punches of various sizes that have some meat to them and have them hardened. I've been watching these threads and am learning so much but can't put it to use until I can get out to the garage, is way to cold out there now to play. Thanks all for all you do.

[d_striker]

Was tinkering around some more. I hand annealed some cases with a propane torch and made sure each case was really glowing.

I ran them threw the swaging die and they came out closer to .40". Only about 3/16" of the finished bullet if .40" though. Right below the ogive it is about .399 and gradually becomes .400". I'm worried that this isn't enough bearing surface fir good accuracy. What can I do to increase the more of the bullet's diameter to .400"? I've got the die cranked down pretty far.

BT Sniper- how long is the bearing surface on your bullets?

[BT Sniper]

That looks PERFECT if you ask me. Don't go much tighter on that die as you can see the pressure nedded to get the rim to expand. Having that extracter grove opening may give us a little bit of relief from appling to much pressure as it starts to compress but if you can get the rim to what you have there you are pretty colse to having the adjustments "just right".

I posted the same question about a slighly smaller rim and was told not to worry to much as the force applied to the bullet onced fired will take care of the rest.

Just because you only have a short baring surface that is .400 don't forget about the lands of the barrel as they stick out a bit and will contact the bullet from slightly foward of the nose tangent of the ogive all the way to the .398 rim.

Start cranking them out and shoot a few! Looks like you are good to go!

I got a pretty tight die for my personal set of 40 cal and my finished bullet comes out at .3995. Not a problem for me as I figure I have a lot of life in that die before it wares out. Never actually worn out a die but I imagine it can happen over sever thousand if not hundreds of thousadns of bullets.

You can see what a difference FULLY ANNEALED cases make in this hobby. It makes all the difference.

Good work! Did you core seat or just one step it in the swage die?

BT

[BT Sniper]

SwaneeDB,

I think I can get some pics of that as well. I used the same idea for .357 die punches and it worked pretty well.

[ANeat]

Those look good striker, my only concern would be proper tension on the loaded round so you dont get any setback. I think you got em swaged out enough to test for sure.

I would shoot a few and see if the gun likes em

[BT Sniper]

Loaded some for a friend of mine. Even my .3995 bullets seemed to seat and hold well without a crimpgrove too. Did have to set the die for a good taper crimp though as the CH bullet is a bit of a long nose. Matter of fact becasue of the long bullet I think the rim of the bullet sits just about at the point inside the shell where it starts to thinken towards the base. You cut a 40 S&W shell in half you can see this or I'm sure I have posted a cross cut pick somwhere. The thicker brass here should help grab the bullet and maybe even keep it from seating deeper durning firing. I could be all wrong on that but it was mentione that the longer length of these bullets does allow for more surface area for the brass and bullet to conect too.

Let us know how they shoot!

I'll check some of mine for barring surface.

[ebg3]

May have to use an undersize die to size your .40 brass to hold the bullet. Anybody who wants their bullets tested just let me know!
Eddie G.

[ETG]

Was tinkering around some more. I hand annealed some cases with a propane torch and made sure each case was really glowing.

I ran them threw the swaging die and they came out closer to .40". Only about 3/16" of the finished bullet if .40" though. Right below the ogive it is about .399 and gradually becomes .400". I'm worried that this isn't enough bearing surface fir good accuracy. What can I do to increase the more of the bullet's diameter to .400"? I've got the die cranked down pretty far.

BT Sniper- how long is the bearing surface on your bullets?

I'm still a newbie to swaging and don't claim to be an expert but have you tried adding a tad more lead? It might be that there isn't enough lead to force the upper part of the case to fully expand. Might try dropping a piece of shot into the nose and see what happens.

[d_striker]

Good work! Did you core seat or just one step it in the swage die?

BT

I just one stepped it in the swaging die. I'm not going to use the core seat die until I can get a proper base punch for it.

I thought I busted the swaging die as the pin that forms the hollow point came loose from the Allen screw that holds it in place. I now understand what your talking about regarding beefing up the internal parts.

[BT Sniper]

Then the HP punch fell out the bottom of the die. Yep had that problem too. Good idea to hold off on messing up the core seat punch and get a custom one that works for these bullets and is up to the task. Nice to see others with sucess in the one step 40 cal. You'll be shooting soon from the looks of your success.

I am working on larger HP design for a lighter 40 cal bullet in the 170 grain range. I did a quick check on my barring surface no different from yours at a quick glance. I actually thought my die may be a bit tighter with the bullet still coming out a hair under .400.

So what press are you using?

BT

[d_striker]

Then the HP punch fell out the bottom of the die. Yep had that problem too. Good idea to hold off on messing up the core seat punch and get a custom one that works for these bullets and is up to the task. Nice to see others with sucess in the one step 40 cal. You'll be shooting soon from the looks of your success.

I am working on larger HP design for a lighter 40 cal bullet in the 170 grain range. I did a quick check on my barring surface no different from yours at a quick glance. I actually thought my die may be a bit tighter with the bullet still coming out a hair under .400.

So what press are you using?

BT

I'm using a lee classic cast press. So far so good but I've only swaged a dozen bullets. We'll see how it holds up. I'm thinking about getting another one for the core seat die so I don't have to remove/replace the dies. It's kind if a pain to get everything set just right and then have to remove it later.

[CWME]

Nice looking bullets!

Put a allen set screw in the locking rings of the dies. That way you can return to your settings if you have to remove the die from the press. See my thread 44 from 40 w/ pictures. In there I have a pic of the set screws on lock nuts.