They said it couldn't be done

[Lucky Joe]

Count me among those willing to wait. Take your time most good things did not come over night. When you are finished I would like to try some of you boolits.

[StarMetal]

please clarify....the first post in this thread makes no suggestions....if you are trying to take this thread off topic....please stop....if this has nothing to do with lube, and testing....and has to do with you grandstanding and trying to taunt me....don't bother....be respectful or I will simply not answer you anymore....I am not here to play a game....your comment about the coating being "polychromatic" , is an obviously snarky remark....I see no need for it, other than you trying to grandstand....you have nothing to lose by taking or leaving this thread

No, I'm not trying to take it off topic. You said in your first post to try guess what the shiny flakes were on your coated bullets. I did that with the polychromatic coating. If you want more specific powder titanium and aluminum....or something along those lines.

Joe

[jbunny]

ari; u realy got me thinking and thats a dangerous thing. LOL
my guess is ur useing lee alox snot as some people call it and sodium
silicate,( water glass). i picked some up yesterday from the wood stove store.
one store was $10 a bottle and the other store was $2.69 a bottle. it does mix and is not brittle. ur adding a cleaner, probly commet or ajax. whats the saying,

2 % insperation 98% persperation. keep up the good work.
jb

[GLL]

I found it interesting that the material is silicon based /crystalline and look forward to hearing it's chemistry !

Just a point of information. Micas such as muscovite have a Mohs hardness of 2.5 ( about the same as your fingernail) not 8 !

Quartz = 7 Topaz=8 Corundum=9

Jerry

[AriM]

No, I'm not trying to take it off topic. You said in your first post to try guess what the shiny flakes were on your coated bullets. I did that with the polychromatic coating. If you want more specific powder titanium and aluminum....or something along those lines.

Joe

please excuse my nasty reply....I did not understand the nature of your comment....I'm a bit embarrassed for being rude

it is not a metal based compound....the reason I keep it under wraps...is because you guys would probably abandon me if you knew what it really was....it is a compound that defies all common sense...one would think that it's a big no no....hence all the testing for excessive wear

[AriM]

ari; u realy got me thinking and thats a dangerous thing. LOL
my guess is ur useing lee alox snot as some people call it and sodium
silicate,( water glass). i picked some up yesterday from the wood stove store.
one store was $10 a bottle and the other store was $2.69 a bottle. it does mix and is not brittle. ur adding a cleaner, probly commet or ajax. whats the saying,

2 % insperation 98% persperation. keep up the good work.
jb

you are correct....there is a tiny tiny tiny amount of LLA in the formula....but it is literally a few drops....I will switch over to commercial grade alox, if it proves out....so far I see no massive benefit to the alox, other than it's tackiness....which helps the shiny flakes stick....

now you are a smart man indeed....you managed to put your finger very close to one of the compounds....the little flakes aren't comet or ajax....but they are a silica/crystaline compound....there is no sodium silicate in the lube itself....but you are so very close to what the little flakes are....

by all good measure...the hardness of the flakes, worried me at first....but I ran a barrel in a few pounds of them, overnight (in a tumbler)....and although the flakes are a mild abrasive....they caused no scratches or wear on carbon steel....which I honestly thought they would....more and more I believe that barrel wear is due to gas/flame cutting...and has very little to do with friction and abrasion....but with my level of ignorance, that will probably prove to be wrong as well

[AriM]

I found it interesting that the material is silicon based /crystalline and look forward to hearing it's chemistry !

Just a point of information. Micas such as muscovite have a Mohs hardness of 2.5 ( about the same as your fingernail) not 8 !

Quartz = 7 Topaz=8 Corundum=9

Jerry

Jerry,

I have found all kinds of variation in that mineral hardness information....please link me to the scale you are using....the previous scale I was using rated the mica as an 8....after reading your post I went and looked up another scale and they rate it much lower.....2.5, as you said....

on the suggestion of some members here, I went and did research on micas/motor micas.....

I have found that motor micas are used to lube commutators on large DC electric motors....there are varying grades of motor micas....white powder mica is in fact a graphite....the softest of all motor micas is called, amber mica....I am beginning to think that these are not pure minerals....and the name "mica" is misleading....not qualified enough to make a call on it though....

on an interesting note....modern DC motors (for the most part)....use copper/graphite "brushes"....I have quite a bit of experience with small DC motors...I used to build championship grade r/c vehicles (another hobby full of fame and fortune) ....I suspect that with the advent of efficient brush less motors, the brushed DC motor will go away....wow talk about off topic...shame on me

point was that I am starting to get an understand for what motor micas really are....thanks for pointing me in the right direction guys....I like the suggestions...my goal is NOT to seek glory (LOLOLOLOL)....I truly want to help advance the state of boolit lubes...the only promise I can make, is that I will keep trying....fail or succeed....for all we know this current lube/method is a dud...but at least if it proves to be, we can all know NOT to try it again.....

I am my own hardest critic, you guys can be sure that I will keep it honest and will never sacrifice safety as priority number one....

for all we know, nitro methane and ether might make a great lube, but it sounds a bit un-safe....

[felix]

"barrel wear is due to gas/flame cutting...and has very little to do with friction and abrasion" is correct. The best enemy of LONG term accuracy is indexing the cartridge and using the same load. The same load produces intense heat in the same barrel location, constantly changing the acceleration characteristics of the projectile while in that area, and thus results in a constantly changing harmonics curve. ... felix

[AriM]

"barrel wear is due to gas/flame cutting...and has very little to do with friction and abrasion" is correct. The best enemy of LONG term accuracy is indexing the cartridge and using the same load. The same load produces intense heat in the same barrel location, constantly changing the acceleration characteristics of the projectile while in that area, and thus results in a constantly changing harmonics curve. ... felix

so the future is high heat/pliable ceramics? Steel, from my experience, suffers from dramatic fluctuations in environmental conditions....certain high temp ceramics do not....example : high speed bearings...ceramic bearings offer more consistent performance at temp. than even the highest grade carbide...hmmmm, I feel another project coming on...ceramic reloading dies, ceramic boolit coatings and ceramic barrel sleeves.....man that sounds really expensive....

what's consistency and accuracy worth to you guys? judging by the $$$ spent on long range bench rest shooting sports....I would have to say you folks would pay anything for the promise of better consistency....hmmmmm

that being said, my crappy guns and inconsistent shooting, still make me smile....but what do I know, i am just a dumb, naive kid

[ebg3]

Good luck with your testing. I hope this works out for you, and us! I've been shooting cast this week and having to size/lube one at a time and find time to reload and shoot 200-300 rounds every afternoon is becoming a pain in the a**! The shooting season has begun and I'll be trying to shoot 750-1000rds a week in practice. I'm very interested in an easier way to lube and size WITH less smoke than conventional lubes. If this system works out for you, I will definately be interested in trying some of these boolits.
Eddie

[AriM]

Good luck with your testing. I hope this works out for you, and us! I've been shooting cast this week and having to size/lube one at a time and find time to reload and shoot 200-300 rounds every afternoon is becoming a pain in the a**! The shooting season has begun and I'll be trying to shoot 750-1000rds a week in practice. I'm very interested in an easier way to lube and size WITH less smoke than conventional lubes. If this system works out for you, I will definately be interested in trying some of these boolits.
Eddie

EXCELLENT!!! you are the type of tester I would like to have.....your round count is similar to mine....USPSA?? If you promise to be brutally honest and just cover my material and shipping cost....I will send you a large batch, after initial testing...or better yet....you send me lead....and I will send you back boolits +++++

not looking to make a buck of you guys....this is a team effort...and I would like the goal to be the advancement of our hobby....what I wind up doing with the product, after you guys approve it, is secondary....

PM me and I we can work out the details....thanks for your support

if I can get more replies like this one....I will try to accelerate the initial testing...you guys are awesome!!!

[felix]

"....by the $$$ spent on long range bench rest shooting" is cost of travel to the meets. These guys want guns that shoot with no load changes except for ambient conditions, and therefore care less about barrel cost. Your audience won't be these guys, but folks like us but don't know it as of yet. ... felix

[sheepdog]

What if my lube/method turns out to be garbage? Then you will be mad at me after you try it, and have poor results......so either way I can't win with you? Please be patient, and appreciate my willingness to put YOUR personal safety above all else....thank you

I would be happy to send you a test batch after the 10k mark....

I would rather have you guys be mad at me about waiting, than mad at me about your barrel failing

Easy killer, no ones mad at you. Just poking fun, we're all friends here. If you want to share it than hoozah are in order. If not life will go on.

[AriM]

Easy killer, no ones mad at you. Just poking fun, we're all friends here. If you want to share it than hoozah are in order. If not life will go on.

@ "killer".....indeed life goes on either way....would you agree that it's smart to test these, with safety as the primary consideration, before releasing any info?

[AriM]

"....by the $$$ spent on long range bench rest shooting" is cost of travel to the meets. These guys want guns that shoot with no load changes except for ambient conditions, and therefore care less about barrel cost. Your audience won't be these guys, but folks like us but don't know it as of yet. ... felix

you know what would be really cool, a helium/gas buffer....with equal pressure drop, surrounding the projectile.....of course the barrel would fail early, due to all the gas blow-by....and it would be totally impractical but then there are some pretty insane rigs out there....nothing more than a barrel clamped to a drill press stand with some kind of electronic trigger and external action....sky's the limit right??

I still like my totally inaccurate pistol....it'll out shoot me any day....

[buck1]

Arim said: "the little glittery flecks on the boolits are part of the coating...anyone care to guess what they are?"
That sort of opens it up for guessing in my book.
.....Buck

[AriM]

Arim said: "the little glittery flecks on the boolits are part of the coating...anyone care to guess what they are?"
That sort of opens it up for guessing in my book.
.....Buck

indeed.....so what's yer guess?

[jbunny]

ari; i,m realy interested in ur process. are u doing any 38 cal by any chance?
i would like to try these at rifle velocitys. i think the little white
flakes are borax. i,ve got good vibes about ur process.
jb

[Willbird]

"....by the $$$ spent on long range bench rest shooting" is cost of travel to the meets. These guys want guns that shoot with no load changes except for ambient conditions, and therefore care less about barrel cost. Your audience won't be these guys, but folks like us but don't know it as of yet. ... felix

finding a truly excellent barrel is a **** shoot (they call those barrels "hummers) but when they DO find one, they like to make it last longer if they can. BR guys were on the forefront of using moly both on bullets and on the powder, and some are playing with ion nitride hardened bores too. There is more than ONE of those guys that has a pet hummer bbl that ONLY gets fired when there is big money on the table.

Bill

[felix]

Absolutely true, Bill. Some folks carry several barrels, one for each type of relay (hunter, heavy varmint, etc.). ... felix