Did I goof?

[awaveritt]

The 357 magnum load data from my Lyman Pistol and Revolver Manual, 3rd. Ed. suggests that for various cast lead boolits from 150 to 160 grains, the starting charge for Bullseye is 4.9-5.0 gr. and the max is 6.9 -7.0 grains. Based on that, I loaded 5 round series of Bullseye under a 150 grain Lead RNFP cast boolit at 5.0gr; 5.5gr.; 6.0gr.; and 6.5grs. These loads are for my new Marlin 1894c in 357 brass. Boolit is a commercially-cast 150gr. RNFP

Now I'm looking at data from Alliant which would indicate that the 6.0 and 6.5 grain charges are too hot.

Has anyone here safely used Bullseye in 357 cases loaded that hot? Any suggestions, or am I in the market for a bullet puller?

[dubber123]

I have not shot any Bullseye loads that high, but an older Speer manual I have does list pressures as being tested, and they go to 7.1 BE with a 158 Jacketed. I would go to a slower burning powder myself, easier on the gun, and prolly higher Fps. too.

[243winxb]

Play it safe and go with the Alliant data. Bullseye is best for light target to medium loading.

[lwknight]

I have never used B.E. in hot loads and it is not popular to do so. Unique is probably the fastest powder that most folks will try to heat up a 357 mag with. I think that 6 grains BE is a might warmish but may work out just fine , but, you just don't hear of many folks doing that.

I would not think of BE as a good choice of rifle powder. You have a longer barrel and really need a slower powder to take advanage of it.

My vote leans to
BE or win 231 for light loads
Unique for medium loads
IMR 4227, Ranshot True Blue, Lil'Gun, Win296 and H110 for rifle loads and high end revolver loads in the 357 magnum.

Sometimes we just gotta make the best of what we can get these days.

[jdgabbard]

Agreed. Use a slower powder. While I've used Unique before in 357mag, I'd think I'd stick with something a lot slower... Like 2400..

[awaveritt]

JBGabbard wrote:

I'd think I'd stick with something a lot slower... Like 2400..

I do have some 2400 but I figured I'd save that for J-words and GC cast boolits. I'm really looking for a mid-range load for PB boolits. I do have some HP-38. Anyone have any 357mag loads for that powder and PB boolits? What would be good in-between BE and 2400 for this?

[dubber123]

Between 5.0 to 6.5 grs. of HP-38 will get you there.

[Daddyfixit]

Agreed - BE is way to fast for a max load in a pistol let alone a rifle. I use 2400 in my .357's. As for a bullet puller I saw a post here a few days ago using 2x4's and your shell holder! It would just cost your time. I don't have the link, maybe someone could help?

[awaveritt]

Between 5.0 to 6.5 grs. of HP-38 will get you there.

Now see? That's what I mean. Hodgdons published data is way below that. Again, way under some suggestions. With all this conservative published data I'm starting to get GUN SHY (pun intended).

The Hodgdon site lists the following for HP-38.

158 GR. LSWC -Hodgdon HP-38 .358" 1.610" 3.4 = 796 12,600 CUP 5.0 = 1109 23,900 CUP

I know there are lots and lots of variables but it makes me dizzy. Guess I'll stick with powder mfgrs. recommendations and work up. The Lyman data stills puzzles me, though. Any recommendations for bullet puller tools? I always figured I'd need one someday.

[mpmarty]

Your 357 rifle IS a bullet puller albeit a noisy one.

[243winxb]

work up

Start low and work up always works. You need to find your own maximum with the components you are using. Anytime a component is changed, start low and work up again. The components used is what makes data different. Some loads for handguns listed are not even maximum in some manuals. A swaged bullet will be loaded lighter than a cast bullet.

[dubber123]

Now see? That's what I mean. Hodgdons published data is way below that. Again, way under some suggestions. With all this conservative published data I'm starting to get GUN SHY (pun intended).

The Hodgdon site lists the following for HP-38.

158 GR. LSWC -Hodgdon HP-38 .358" 1.610" 3.4 = 796 12,600 CUP 5.0 = 1109 23,900 CUP

I know there are lots and lots of variables but it makes me dizzy. Guess I'll stick with powder mfgrs. recommendations and work up. The Lyman data stills puzzles me, though. Any recommendations for bullet puller tools? I always figured I'd need one someday.

My Hodgdon manual lists 5.0 with lead as 1,109 fps, but only 24,900 CUP. Thats a hot .38 Spl. to me, so I gave that as a start, (you did want mid range, not plinkers, right?). With a 158 XTP they go to 6.9, with a listed vel. of 1,220, and 40,000 CUP. I reduced that load a bit, even though the cast will likely shoot faster at a lower pressure. (Still looking mid range). Somewheres between 5.0 and 6.5 I think you will find your "mid range" power level. No mystery... P.S. mpmarty has the right idea for a boolit puller...

[awaveritt]

dubber123:
Thanks for the info. I don't have the Hodgdon manual. I was just going by the min/max they list on their online recipes for LSWC and HP38. I'll probably try some HP-38 at 5.0grs. and work up from there.

I've loaded 38special for years but am just now starting to work up 357 loads for my Marlin. Don't have any 357 revolvers so I'm kind of starting from scratch. For my mid-range PB loads, sounds like I need some Unique or something square in the middle of BE and 2400. Thanks again.

[dubber123]

That 5.0 grain load will prolly get you in the 1,100 to 1,200 fps. range in the rifle, and may be all you want. I've shot alot of .357's loaded in that range and find it a very useful load. I have noticed many manuals go out of their way to keep lead boolits around 1,000 or less. Maybe if they learned to cast a decent boolit with good lube, they'd list some higher cast loads... Let us know how you make out. On your Bullseye loads, my older Speer manual, (which still lists CUP) goes to 7.1 with BE and jacketed. I would shoot your initial BE loads. They are safe.

[243winxb]

In the 357 mag., load 13.0gr Alliant 2400 with 150 to 158gr Cast LSWC if you want to change powders.

[MtGun44]

Note that the max pressure reported for the Hodgdon data is only 24,000 (CUP or PSI??)
when the max for 357 mag is either 35,000 or 40,000. They didn't run HP38 to
max pressure with LSWC.

That is open to interpretation, maybe you shouldn't go there, or maybe they just stopped
there because they thought that was 'fast enough' with lead.

Bill

[dubber123]

Note that the max pressure reported for the Hodgdon data is only 24,000 (CUP or PSI??)
when the max for 357 mag is either 35,000 or 40,000. They didn't run HP38 to
max pressure with LSWC.

That is open to interpretation, maybe you shouldn't go there, or maybe they just stopped
there because they thought that was 'fast enough' with lead.

Bill

Bill I think it's the "fast enough" with lead thing. They go to 42,700 CUP with jacketed in my #27 Hodgdon manual using HP-38.

[dubber123]

I loaded some .357's with 5.0 grs. of HP-38, and 6.0 grs. of HP-38. Remington brass, CCI 500 primers, 150 gr. cast boolit sized .358", fired from a 1894Carbine Marlin. 5.0 grs. averaged 1,120 fps., 6.0 grs. averaged 1,275 fps.

[AlaskaMike]

You might pull the 6.5 grain loads, but if it were me I'd shoot the others. You have to remember that your Marlin has a much stronger action, and much thicker steel at the chamber than even a S&W N frame or Ruger GP100.

I do fully agree with the recommendations for using the typical magnum pistol powders for your future loads though, for a variety of reasons.

Mike

[awaveritt]

dubber123: Thanks so much for going to all that trouble to help. I feel a lot more comfortable going forward with the info you provided.

A guy over on Marlinowners said he's used the Bullseye in the 6 to 6.5 grains in his 94c with no problems. I am also going to try some of my 2400 in moderate loads for PB boolits. Thanks to all who have responded.