Testing 6.5 Swede HV loading with shotgun filler

[Larry Gibson]

Hello all

I am starting this thread to address the tests I am conducting with the 6.5x55 Swede cartridge with cast bullets shot at high velocity (2200 – 2300+ fps) using medium and slow burning powders with a shotgun buffer filler. It has been posted that excellent accuracy can be obtained with this cartridge and it’s fast twist barrel in that high Velocity (HV) range. It is also stated by those who developed this technique that it is dangerous as high pressures can result if the loader doesn’t know what he is doing. These tests I have and am going to be conducting are because I am interested in such HV loads in the 6.5 Swede and I have the mechanism (an Oehler M43 PBL) to measure velocity, muzzle velocity, downrange velocity (100 yards), Ballistic Coefficients, MAPs (Maximum Average Pressure), and can record the time/pressure trace. The objective is two fold; first to develop accurate (minimal 1 ½ moa in capable rifles) HV (22-2300+ fps) cast bullets loads in issue milsurp 6.5x55 Swede barrels using the described technique with shotgun buffer as a filler. Second is to determine if dangerous pressures do happen and where they happen.

I will conduct numerous tests over the next several months. I have already conducted the first test. As the tests are done other sub-tests will be done along the way to give data or reach a conclusion on a point. Observations on what is working and what is not working will be obvious through the group size, the velocity and the pressure data. On the two main objectives (can the claimed accuracy really be had by other cast bullet shooters and is this technique dangerous) I will not make any conclusion until I have completed all of the tests. I would ask that all of you do not reach any conclusions before then also.

Obviously this thread is a different track from starmetal’s “Milk Jug” thread. As such I am asking everyone to ask pertinent questions or make pertinent remarks. However lets just let the results of the tests and the data speak for themselves. Derogatory remarks and/or criticism without an explicit constructive answer to the criticism are not wanted. We want to progress here in as straight forward manner as we can. That means we must all cooperate toward this goal. If you can not do that then please don’t post. You are always open to start your own thread and criticize and complain to your hearts content there. Here we are trying to accomplish something in a meaningful way so please assist if you can.

Thank you all for your cooperation.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

This is the first test completed so far.

6.5 Swede HV; Test 1

I completed the first test of the 6.5 Swede with HV (High Velocity) cast bullet loads using a shotgun buffer as filler. The results while not satisfying were none the less interesting and informative. They will lead to additional testing to be conducted soon. The test rifle is a Mexican SR M98 action that I put a new, in the white milsurp M38 Swede barrel on. The headspace is very tight with factory 6.5x55 ammunition giving a “crush” fit when the bolt is closed. The action is bedded in a Fajen sporter stock with the first couple inches of the barrel bedded. The trigger is smoothed and is a crisp 2 ½ lb pull. The scope is a Tasco World Class 3x9x50 and is set on 9X for the testing. The rifle shoots factory ammo into less than 2 moa for 10 shot strings. With reloads using Sierra or Hornady bullets moa 10 shot groups are common.

The velocity and pressure tests were done with an Oehler M43 PBL. The start screen was 15” from the muzzle. Testing was done at the Tacoma Rifle and revolver Club’s main range. There are very solid cement benches there and I set the M43 up in the same location each time I test there. The set up is also checked by shooting a test string with a test rifle and a known consistent lot of ammunition (referred to a “reference ammunition”). I use a .308W bolt action I have just for this purpose and a specific lot of M118SB that I have obtained. The pre-test check with the test rifle and reference ammunition was well within expected variation so I began the 6.5 tests.

Test conditions; it was an overcast day with no wind to speak of. It was 40 degrees F during the test. Test target was at 100 yards. A front and rear rest were used.

Test loads; I followed 45 2.1’s instructions with the bullets, and equipment I have. I will list here his instructions in italics and under each instruction mention what I did in bold. Also I wish 45 2.1 and starmetal to understand that I am not criticizing anything here. I am only reporting what I’ve done in relation to their instructions, previous statements and claims. My assumption is to take everything at face value and work diligently at getting the same level of accuracy at 2200 fps or so in the 6.5 Swede with 7.9” twist. My testing is far from over so again; I am not criticizing, only reporting and learning.

•The correct (easiest to use, not the only one suitable to use) filler is the Ballistic Products: BP Original design buffer. Be sure it has not been changed from its original properties, i.e. it will NOT flow thru a funnel without help and clumps together when piled up.

I did not have the correct filler as what I got was based on what I had gleaned/guessed at from previous posts/threads and from some PM information. I have BPI’s #47 buffer. It is a plastic buffer and does not flow through a funnel exactly as 45 2.1 describes. In a private conversation with starmetal he had not tried #47 either and was anxious to see if it performed. I conducted this initial test with the #47. I have some of the “original” on order to test when it arrives. If the #47 is not successful at least I will have some load data with several powders to narrow down the test parameters with the original buffer when I get it.

•This filler is not a Do-All in that it has a specific purpose in this and other smaller capacity cartridges. Its purposes are to reduce the cartridge capacity in which it does these things: helps the slow burning powder to achieve it initial ignition pressure by bridging in the case neck/shoulder area thereby increasing initial pressure so that the powder burns very uniformly and evenly; keeps any powder gas off the boolit base along with stopping any gas cutting; compacts into a plastic solid mass which acts as a shock absorber and provides even pressure around the boolit base. After the boolit starts moving the filler plug moves into the neck out of the case thereby increasing case capacity again lowering the pressure buildup. This keeps the pressure lower than any other method I’ve found.

I did not find any evidence that #47 was “compact(ing) into a plastic solid mass”. With all loads tested there was a large “puff” of the filler between the muzzle and the start screen with each shot. Even at the maximum load I stopped at which had 41,600 psi there was no indication the filler was compacting into a solid mass. It may prove different with other powders or with “original” filler, we shall see in future tests. The #47 filler also allows the two powders tested to burn uniformly and evenly.

•To load the Swede correctly, you need to do the previously talked about things such as: reforming military thick necked 30-06 brass along with turning the case neck to 0.001” loaded case chamber clearance, a throat sized cast boolit that fits your rifle, a centered fired formed case, etc. These have been covered in detail before and can be found in the archives.

The brass is well fire formed and necks are trued. Primers used were Remington 9 1/2s. The bullet is a 266455 that drops at .267-.268 when cast of WW/lead 50/50 alloy. The test barrel is .266 in the grooves. The throat is also .266 and an unsized .267 bullet gets shoved back into the case by the chamber throat. I seat the GCs first, then push them nose first into the .266 H die in the 450. The bullets are then lubed in the same .266 H die with LBT Soft Blue lube. The bullet fully dressed weighs right at 130 gr and looks exactly like the one starmetal posted that he got from 45 2.1.

•To actually load the cartridge involves simple hand loading methods. You need dies which will accept the somewhat (0.268”+) boolit. Several die sets will not until altered. You also need a neck expander about 0.001" below your boolit diameter to expand and flare the neck with. It also helps with some powders to taper crimp the case neck lightly.

The case necks are sized in a Redding bushing die giving .001 - .002” tension on the bullets. The bullets are seated so the front driving band is just off the lande. This puts the Top of the GC right at the base of the neck. I use a 7x57 die to seat the over sized bullets. A check on concentricity shows minimal runout (close to the best I get with cast bullets which is .001 - .004”. I did not crimp any of the loads and will include that in the next test.

•Powder selection is fairly simple; you pick a slow for the cartridge powder. That is one which is probably one speed (or more) slower than what is shown in the jacketed data shown for the boolit weight you have. IMR 4350 and AA3100 both work here.

I used 4895 for 3 of the test loads as starmetal had successfully used that in his 6.5MS. The test loads with 4895 were 26, 28 and 30 gr. I then loaded 9 five shot test strings with AA4350 starting at 31 gr. I chose 31 gr because that is what starmetal said was the load on the first 6.5 Swede groups he posted. My test loads went; 31, 33, 36, 38, 40, 42, 44, 46 and 48 gr.

How much powder do you use? Fill the fire formed sized case up to within a dimes thickness of where the body meets the shoulder of the case. Measure that amount and check it against the loading data you have looked at. It should be on the low side of published data, at least for the powders shown. This is where you adjust the load varying the powder charge from that point up to the base of the shoulder.

•How much filler do you use? Conventional wisdom says to fill it to the top of the case neck. If you do this you will NOT get a decent group. This filler DOES NOT like being compressed much. What you do is fill the case to the point where it will compress the thickness of a gas check (that will be just slightly into the base of the neck). You will want to tap the case head a couple of times at this point to make sure it is filled to that point. Seat the boolit and taper crimp slightly.

I filled a case with 4350 as per the instructions and weighed that amount. I then adjusted a Lee powder thrower to throw that weight charge which was 52 gr. Noting the CC amount per the Lee scale I divided that into the powder weight which gave me a constant for how much volume 1 gr of powder was taking in the CC scale of the Lee powder measure. Then I adjusted the Lee to thrown the starting load. Subtracting the reading on the Lee scale for that starting load from the full case reading gave me the volume of filler needed to fill the case with filler. As I adjusted the powder charge up I multiplied the constant times the powder weight and subtracted that from the first filler volume. I found that due to settling of the filler I had to add a tudge to the filler volume. I set up 2 powder throwers; the first was a Lyman 55 to throw the powder and the second was the Lee to throw the filler. It sounds a lot more complicated than it was and I have to admit using 45 2.1 and starmetals names in vain for getting me into such a mess However I soon got the hang of making the adjustments and it went pretty smoothly. I did have to lightly rap the drum screw of the Lee thrower to get the filler to settle evenly into the extension. On the down stroke I also had rap the drum screw about 5-6 times to get the filler to drop into the case.

•This is not dangerous if you have some wits about you, BUT I will not assume any responsibility for what you do either. This cartridge is graduate/PHD level on how to make it work and get it to shoot at jacketed accuracy and velocity, which it will do easily if you know what you’re doing.
•You will have to make adjustments in those powder/filler levels to achieve this. There is a learning curve here. The best way is to post your group pictures along with what you did. The group size and shape will tell what needs to be done.
It definitely took some thinking on getting the right way to make powder and filler amounts come out to 100% density. Once I figured out how to do it with the Lee thrower it was relatively easy.
•You got any questions, then ask because Joe went thru this for awhile before he caught on to how it is properly done.

What taper crimp die are you using 45 2.1?

So with the afore mentioned loads and equipment I was off to the range to test. As stated I had everything set up and did a reference check to ensure all was set and that the M43 was giving proper readings. Now to the “Good, the Bad and the Ugly”;-0

I ran the 4895 test first.

26 gr 4895; produced the best accuracy of any load including the AA4350 loads. Group size was right at 2.2”. Velocity was 2085 fps, SD was 22 and the ES was 56. The MAP was 37,200 psi, the SD 1,300 and the ES 3,300. Bolt lift and extraction were easy.

28 gr 4895; velocity was 2168 fps, SD was 13 and the ES was 29. The MAP was 41,600 psi, the SD was 1,100 and the ES was 2,800. No sign of hard bolt lift.

30 gr 4895; velocity was 2236 fps, SD was 17 and the ES was 40. The MAP was 45,300 psi, SD was 700 and the ES was 1,200. Two of the shots gave hard bolt lift. Both of those shots gave the same puff of filler at the muzzle as the other shots. There was no sign of pressure with any of those shots. Primers were very nicely rounded.

I then tested the AA4350 loads;

31 gr AA4350; velocity was 1965 fps, SD was 22 and the ES was 45. The MAPwas30,500 psi, SD was 800 and the ES was 1,600. No sign of hard bolt lift.

33 gr AA4350; velocity was 2047 fps, SD was 7 and the ES was 14. The MAP was 31,900 psi, SD was 1,100 and the ES was 20. No hard bolt lift.

36 gr AA4350; velocity was 2167 fps, SD was 6 and the ES 17. The MAP was 36,100 psi, the SD 700 and the ES 1,600. No hard bolt lift.

38 gr AA4350; velocity was 2252 fps, SD was 24 and ES was 62. The MAP was 39,200 psi, SD 800 and the ES 1,600. There was a bit of hard bolt lift on all of the shots. There were no signs of pressure.

40 gr AA4350; velocity was 2340 fps, SD was 20 and the ES 52. The MAP was 41,600 psi, SD 10,00 and the ES 2,300. There was absolutely no bolt lift problem with any of the shots(?). There were no pressure signs.

I am at a loss to explain the bolt lift problems at some points yet at a higher pressure there are no bolt lift problems. There was no indication of excessive pressure at any times. The time pressure traces, the time under the pressure curve and the duration of the pressure curve showed no indication of any pressure spikes. The puff of filler between the muzzle and start screen was consistent and always present. I’m sure there is a reason but I can’t think of it yet.

There you have the Good and the Bad. The ugly is that accuracy for all the loads except the first 4895 load loads ran 4-6” until the last group with 40 gr of AA 4350 where only 3 shots stayed on the rather large target. I did not test the last 3 test strings because of the total loss of anything remotely that could be described as accuracy from a rifle barrel. Perhaps a shotgun barrel pattern would fit the description but not accuracy from a rifle.

I shall revisit the 4895 loads with a harder bullet and different lube. I will also try 3100, H4831SC and RL22. With those slower powders I will start at 31 gr and work up to 40 gr. That is the plan and the test continues.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

There was some discusion as to the suitability of the Mex SR with the milsurp 6.5 Swede M38 barrel as being a "true test" of the 6.5 Swede. Well it is a factory milsurp 6.5 Swede replacement barrel. It has the original chamber (finished) and is at minimum headspace. How it being on a different action affects the outcome of velocity, pressure and accuracy is confusing to me. However, to placate those who think otherwise I also have a M38 and will conduct tests with it. To this effect one of the next tests will be a comparative test between the two rifles (the Mex Swede and the M38) to determine if there is a real difference. If there is I will use the M38 for the remainder of the tests. However, if it proves out there is no substantial differnce between the rifles then does it matter if I use the Mex Swede?

Lets address some specific issues;

Powders; The next test will be with 4895, AA4350, H4831SC, and possibly RL22 with various charges using a 3/4 gr dacron filler in. These should give the expected velocity (22-2300+ fps) so we can have past loads to compare those with the "original" shotgun buffer filler with.

Filler; the first test was conducted with BPI's #47 buffer. Apparently this was not the "right" filler . I have ordered some "Original" shotgun buffer from BPI which is supposed to be the "right" filler. I will use "Original" filler in subsequent tests.

Cases; The cases I will use for the majority of tests are from reformed U42 '06 milsurp cases. They are well fire formed to the particular rifle's chamber. The necks of these cases allow for a .266 bullet to have a .0005 - .001 neck clearence in the front half of the tapered 6.5 chamber neck. I have found that if the case is crimped under a driving band then a .268 bullet can be chambered. However the front of the tapered throat sizes the front 2 driving bands down to .2665. That is about as "perfect" a fit as one is going to get.

Neck sizing; the necks of the cases will be sized in a Redding bushing die with an appropriate size bushing to give .001 - .002 neck tension on the bullets. I may swtch to using my Lee Collet sizer as more of you probably have that than have a Redding Bushing die. With either it is easy to adjust the amount of neck tension and I see little difference between the use of either.

Primers My past test of different primers with HV loads shows little difference if the load is worked up with one specific primer. I started the tests with Remington 9 1/2s as that is considered a "gentle" primer. I may switch to Wolf primers since starmetal was using those though.

Lubes; The 1st test was done using LBT Blue Soft lube because that is what starmetal used with his first posted "bug hole" groups with the 6.5 Swede at 2250 or so fps. Numerous of you have PM'd me stating the LBT lube doesn't work well in cold weather. Starmetal is now using his own soap lube so apparently a good lube will do. I do one more test with the LBT lube and if it doesn't work out I'll switch to Javelina and Carnauba Red as both of them work well in the cooler temperatures I'm testing at this time of year.

GCs: I intend to use Hornady GCs with the exception of starmetals home made aluminum ones that will be on the bullets he is sending me to test. The GCs will be preseated prior to sizing.

Sizing the cast bullets I use will be sized and lubed at .268 hopefully with a sizer that is being loaned to me.

Cast Bullets; I will continue with 266455 until I have hit the target velocity range of 2200 - 2300 + fps with the various powders. I will then test the Kurz GB bullet and the bullet starmetal is sending me with those target powder charges.

Alloys; the 1st tests 266455s were cast of 50/50 WW/lead alloy as that was the alloy of the first "bug hole" groups starmetal shot with his 6.5 Swede. I will further test that alloy but will probably switch to an alloy that is ductile at 18 BHN.

Seating and crimping. I checked with Lee as per 45 2.1 and they only offered their factory crimp die. Starmetal uses the LFCD but 45 2.1 uses a Lee taper crimp die which is not available. To solve the problem I took the collet out of the Hornady die and honed it out so it will seat .268 bullets. I also beveled off the roll crimp to a taper crimp. A couple test dummy loads show a very nice taper crimp. I will now be using the Hornady seater and taper crimping under a driving band so the .268 bullets can be seated in the .265 throat.

Testing; the testing will be done at the same loacation as in test #1. The targets will be at 100 yards. All velocities and data will be collected using the M43 PBL. If sufficient accuracy is obtained I will place screens at 100 yards and measure the BCs of the bullets.

There's a rough idea of where the tests are heading. Any constructive suggestions would be appreciated.

Larry Gibson

[Doc Highwall]

Larry Gibson, first I would like to thank you for all your efforts. I have been following it on the milk jug thread and I am interested in this to use any data for my 260 Rem with SAECO #264-140gr. One challenge that you have is the 1-7.9" twist in your swede vs 1-9" twist in my 260 Rem.

[Larry Gibson]

Doc

Thank you and I will be posting all the information I obtain. There definately is more of a challenge with the faster twist 6.5 Swede. I could easily get very good accuracy with the 266455 at 1850-1900 fps out of my own 9" twist 6.5-308. However, a couple say it can be done at even higher velocity with the faster twist 6.5 Swede and I really do hope so. I would indeed like to shoot a 130-140 gr cast bullet at 2200+ fps in the Swede if at all possible. The RPM threshold (another topic and one I do not want to get into here, at least during the tests) says accomplishing accuracy at HV in the fast twist Swede shouldn't be done easily. This 'technique" is obviously not "easy". The testing will demonstrate whether accuracy at HV can be done and what are the "dangerous" parmeters. I am remaining optomistic.

Larry Gibson

[dubber123]

I'm looking forward to your results. I'm sure your test will be comprehensive regardless of the outcome.

[Bret4207]

Larry, your PM box is full. Got some info that may help you.

[Larry Gibson]

Bret

I've been getting a lot of PMs lately, probably no surprise. I cleaned some out so send the info please.

Larry Gibson

[Pat I.]

Don't have the right to say this considering I'm not the one doing the testing but since there's been nothing but secrets since day one with this stuff can we try to keep the PMs to a minimum if it pertains to the tests. If we start with the back room discussions right off the bat the whole point of the endeavor is lost in my humble opinion. Transparency should be first and foremost from here on out.

Also if you're interested Larry I can include a stick of Lars BAC Special Blend and 2500+ and a stick of Voodoo Red in the package with the brass and sizer if you want to spend time chasing lubes. As for LBT I have to agree it does have it's problems in cold weather but I've found for the most part it's a quantity over quality issue. I can get away with shooting my 30x47 at 2600 fps with just the space over the gas check filled when the temperature starts dipping down.

Another thing I think should be mentioned in a project like this is that if it's a pure hunting load you're looking for don't discount the advantages of weight over speed. If it's a target load you're looking for don't discount BC over speed. A 170 gr bullet at 1700 fps just might be a better killer than a 130 gr bullet at 2200 and might prove it's equal, or better it, on the target range. The increased sectional density and BC go a long way in both penetration in game and performance at the range.

My 2 cents on the subject and if there's anything I can do to help you put this puppy to bed let me know.

[Doc Highwall]

Larry, a question on the gas checks, did you anneal them or are they use as purchased. I found I had to anneal my 30 cal Hornady gas checks to get the best accuracy.

[largom]

Would be interested in knowing the hardness of your 50/50 WW/Pb alloy and the tester used. Also, how long have the boolits aged after casting?

Larry, I just received [after waiting 9 months] the Lee 6.5 Swede special order mold from Midsouth. I do not know what the mold drops at, have not cast with it yet. If you wanted to test this boolit I would gladly send you the mold.

Larry Miller

[Larry Gibson]

Pat I.

Don't have the right to say this considering I'm not the one doing the testing but since there's been nothing but secrets since day one with this stuff can we try to keep the PMs to a minimum if it pertains to the tests. If we start with the back room discussions right off the bat the whole point of the endeavor is lost in my humble opinion. Transparency should be first and foremost from here on out.

I can guarentee I will post everything I do and all of the results good, bad or indifferent. There will be nothing mysterious or secret about what I test. I will provide as much detail as I can. If someone wants to mention or suggest something in a PM I am open to that and will openly incorporate it into the tests posting what the change or suggestion was, if it is pertinant.

Also if you're interested Larry I can include a stick of Lars BAC Special Blend and 2500+ and a stick of Voodoo Red in the package with the brass and sizer if you want to spend time chasing lubes. As for LBT I have to agree it does have it's problems in cold weather but I've found for the most part it's a quantity over quality issue. I can get away with shooting my 30x47 at 2600 fps with just the space over the gas check filled when the temperature starts dipping down.

I've already got the BAC and 2500+ and am going to try Javelina and Carnauba REd both of which perform well in the winter/spring temperatures here. If I do end up chasing lubes (not really in the plan right now as I've done that before and found a good lube is a good lube) the Voodoo Red might be worth a try. What is in the plan, if an acurate load in the velocity range is found, is to vary the amount of lube on the bullets to see how that might effect accuracy.

Another thing I think should be mentioned in a project like this is that if it's a pure hunting load you're looking for don't discount the advantages of weight over speed. If it's a target load you're looking for don't discount BC over speed. A 170 gr bullet at 1700 fps just might be a better killer than a 130 gr bullet at 2200 and might prove it's equal, or better it, on the target range. The increased sectional density and BC go a long way in both penetration in game and performance at the range.

I am not looking for a hunting load, I've many others (especially the .35 Remington ) that work very well. I am looking for accuracy out to 300 yards for milsurp matches but mostly this is just a very interesting test/challenge of cast bullet loading and shooting skills. Other than "I want to to do it if it can be done" and the learning of new information and passing that on I've not other reasons.

My 2 cents on the subject and if there's anything I can do to help you put this puppy to bed let me know.

Just stay tuned and keep the good advise coming. I am not one to think I can see every angle so the more of us that are actively involved the better.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

Larry, a question on the gas checks, did you anneal them or are they use as purchased. I found I had to anneal my 30 cal Hornady gas checks to get the best accuracy.

Doc

No I did not anneal them There was no mention of that in the "technique" listed. Actually the use of home made GCs of aluminum was used. The user made no mention of annealing them that I am aware. If it was mentioned then we will go in that direct, might just go that way down the line. Right now I'm trying to avoid being "random" and not following the "technique". If the "technique" does not show us the accuracy potential claimed we will tweek it here and there. Annealed GCs are probably one of the "tweeks" to try. Remind me when we get to that point okay?

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

Would be interested in knowing the hardness of your 50/50 WW/Pb alloy and the tester used. Also, how long have the boolits aged after casting?

Larry, I just received [after waiting 9 months] the Lee 6.5 Swede special order mold from Midsouth. I do not know what the mold drops at, have not cast with it yet. If you wanted to test this boolit I would gladly send you the mold.

Larry Miller

Larry Miller

The BHN runs 12-14 on the ingets using the ball bearing indentaion method.

The bullets were cast several months ago, perhaps 5-6 months. I did not GC and lube them until just before I loaded them.

Is it the "Kurz" bullet? If so I have a mould coming. If it is another design I Definately would like to cast some bullets with it. If the 266455, starmetals bullets (the BaBore diesign) and "Kurz" bullets do not give results then I would definatel test yours. Probably would test it anyway if we get the required accuracy at the 2200+ fps goal. I'll PM my address if you do send it.

Larry Gibson

[Pat I.]

Larry if you go back and reread the thread it was 2300+ fps.

[6.5 mike]

Larry, I'll be watching with great interest from the sidelines. Nice to have you back. mike

[heathydee]

Right back on page 24 of the Military Rifles forum I posted about my experience with a M38 Swedish Mauser and the use of fillers . The thread is entitled "Swedish Mauser". I have used shotshell filler for years after reading an article by a gentleman by the name of Dave Scovill in the 1990 Cast Bullet Annual . Velocities over 2100fps have been achieved with reasonable accuracy ; good enough for hunting anyway. I posted a picture of a target on the thread but in all honesty I would not bet money on being able to duplicate the results tomorrow . I have had some new brass on order for a while now and when it arrives intend to do a couple more tests.

[geargnasher]

Larry, thanks for doing all this. If I can help in any way please let me know.

Gear

[Larry Gibson]

Larry if you go back and reread the thread it was 2300+ fps.

I know but there have been several velocities bantered around. The original was around 2250 fps as was the last in the chronograph photo that was supposed to be "the load". As in test #1 I will exceed the target velocity of 22-2300 fps by a bit with whichever powder seems to be working to determine if and where pressure might become a problem. Heck I'd be more than happy with consitent 10 shot groups of 1 1/2" moa at 23-2400 fps or higher. We'll see when we get up there, eh?

Larry Gibson

[largom]

I think a lot of shooters are very interested in these tests and we all will benifit from the results. Larry Gibson will also use up a lot of primers, powder, alloy, and time in conducting these tests. I for one would be willing to contribute some $ to help Larry with his expenditures. What say the rest of you?

Larry Miller