Win 70 stock finish material...?

[lurch]

Anybody know what the factory stock finish would be on a 1974 vintage Winchester model 70? I've got one that needs a re-finishing and am looking for the best way to get back down to bare wood before starting.

Thanks,

Kurt

[pietro]

AFAIK, factory production gunstock runs got sprayed with a varnish mixture that was never made public.

FWIW, I never sand any of the gunstocks I refinish anymore - unless there's a repaired area involved that needs sanding.

I've been using Formby's Furniture Refinisher, a liquid stripper in a small can, wiped on with new OOOO steel wool pads to wipe off the old finish down to bare wood, following the can directions.
However there are several other good strippers available, like CitriStrip, that do just as good a job - and better, in fact, on an epoxy finish like a Browning's.

Since a post-64 isn't any kind of collectible, you're pretty much free to stain/finish it to your personal taste, w/o changing the value much, if any.

I prefer a 50/50 mixture of MinWax Red Mahogany/Black Walnut stain on Winchesters & Marlins, followed by several Tru-Oil treatments - but YMMV, of course.

.

[lurch]

This is definitely not a collectors piece. When I got it it was unfired as far as I could tell. Tried shooting some J-words through it and it was throwing patterns - 5" or a little more at 100 yards. It did however shoot some 311284's and 311299's into ragged holes at 50 yards so there was obviously some potential. Taking the barreled action out of the stock revealed some possible reasons:

• Wood is soft on this stock in places and pretty brittle in others - the stock was actually split inside at the cross bolt (cross bolt probably not to well done it this happened IMO...).
  
• Recoil lug was bearing on a single spot on the stock, probably about 1/4" x 1/8" at the far edge of the recoil lug.
  
• There was significant side pressure on the barrel at the forend as well.

I'm bedding it and fixing the split now. Hate to admit to it, but I boogered up the finish pretty good in a spot with an errant chisel that suddenly decided that it no longer wanted to be in my hand and decided to go flying off on its own.

I guess there's a reason Winchester started getting a bad rep for a while in that time frame.

[Shiloh]

The only stocks I've worked on have been military.

On the E-Bay Krag stock I acquired, I used Klean Kutter finish remover from Home Depot.
After steaming dents and sanding, I used a water based dark red mahogany analine wood dye, and finished with organic boiled linseed oil.

A thinned coat of tung oil on the interior stock surfaces only.

Has about thirty coats on it now and is starting to look real good. Very original type finish.

Shiloh

[docone31]

When I refinish stocks, I use Easy-Off.
Works pretty well. I then wipe down with steel wool, and I use diluted Tung Oil. I do a lot of coats, rubbing between to get rid of the feathers.
Once you have the stock stable, and bedded down the action, it will probably throw them a little tighter.
Amazing, what a little care will do for the morale of the rifle.

[gnoahhh]

Rifles that were originally finished with varnish tend to look more "right" if refinished with same, in my opinion. No oil finish ever invented has the moisture barrier characteristics of a good film finish. On period rifles, either a refinish job or new construction, I love to use a good grade of spar varnish. With sufficient build, and properly sanded between coats, one can end up with a glass smooth finish that will resist water very, very well. It's no black art to do a good varnish finish. I don't know why people shy away from it as much as they do. A glossy varnish finish can be rubbed out with any of several methods and will then appear to the casual observer to be a nice pore-filled oil finish, only with about 10 times the protection.

If going from a varnish finish to an oil finish, may I suggest sanding the old finish off instead of using a stripper? By carefully sanding down to the wood surface, and not cutting the old varnish out of the pores, you can save yourself the headache of pore-filling before oiling. It's not as onerous a task as you might think. When I do an oil finish, I first slap a couple of coats of varnish on anyway, and sand back down to the wood in order to fill the pores. I've tried a bunch of commercial grain-filling compounds with varying degrees of success. Nothing is more heartbreaking than to get caught in a sudden downpour and watching the finish wash right out of the pores. Varnish stays put.

Granted all this is rather a bit more labor intensive, but way more effective. In this, as in most things in life, there is no shortcut to doing a good job.

[lurch]

What I had planned to do with the finish was:

• Get down to bare wood.
• Rub in a good coat of a mixture of 50% mineral spirits, 40% oil and 10%% spar urethane.
• Continue for a couple of coats each time with a little more urethane and less thinner, rubbing each out pretty thin.
• Finishing off with a rub of 50% urethane/oil and rubbing that out with some pumice & oil to get back to a light matt type finish resembling what I have now.

That's worked out pretty good in the past for me. Of course, before I do any of that, the rifle is getting a trip to the range to see if the bedding helped as much as I hope it will. Given the current condition (or at least the condition before I started messing wit it) of the inletting, it certainly won't hurt anything.

The exterior of the stock is actually fairly attractive for all its faults.. There is even a hint of fiddleback in the buttstock. I am hoping to bring that out some by getting some of the finish down into the wood rather than just on the surface. using the polymer from the start and gradually increasing the amount of it will give me a pretty good wood seal I think.

If all else fails, I'll get a laminated pre-inletted stock and start fresh with no real worries about stock stability. Here's hoping it doesn't come to that...

[docone31]

I will tell you why I do not like Varnish.
I had an old Husky in .338 Win Mag. A real beauty that had Carl Gustov's signature on the bedding.
I sanded the original finish, which was actually boring, not to mention old and dinged, then I used a Spar Varnish that was chilled. It came out absolutely Beautiful. I mean it glowed!
Then I fired it.
Each shot produced little circular chips in the finish. It was ejecting the finish with each shot!
Well, home it want, and out came the Easy Off! I took it to bare wood, and then some. I got the finish out of the pores.
I then used Tru-Oil.
I coated it, let it dry, then wet sanded to the wood, leaving only the pores to get filled. As the finish got deeper, and the pores got shallower, and the wood got filled in, I sanded it to just make dull the finish so I could coat more. From there, I kept coating, wet sanding every time.
I finally got it finished.
It glowed! Not like the Weatherby plastic look, but it had a shine on its own.
Now, when I fired each time, the finish stayed on the rifle.
I do not know why I got those circles that time. Maybe the wood, who knows.
I went to oil finishes from there on.
With my Ishys, I went with Formby's. It has some varnish with the oil. Fast coating, good finish. I like semi-gloss, or satin. Not bright shine.
It took a while, but it was worth it though.

[gnoahhh]

If the varnish is old and partially polymerized you'll get adherence issues. Being chilled shouldn't have effected either. There must have been other issues. Strange.

[MtGun44]

Try Watco Danish Oil on a sample of walnut, you'll be amazed at how easy it is to get
a really beautiful finish that is trivial to repair in the future.

Bill