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Thread: 2400; Hercules vs Alliant

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
    slohunter's Avatar
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    I've noticed the same thing with Unique.

  2. #22
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks Larry, Ive got 4lbs each unopened of both powders and wondered if there was a difference. Rick!

  3. #23
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I'm pretty late to this thread but I appreciate the real world time and effort you did to test powders and see what is what.
    I do have one question though. Under the 30-30 Remarks you state "With the Alliant I raised the muzzle to 90 degrees before shooting and the ES of the psi improved dramatically. " You don't make it clear but you raised the weapon to get all of the powder into the base of the cartridge to test the position sensitivity NOT that you raised it 90 degrees and fired a shot, right? I know that you did not fire the firearm into the air because changing the position of the firearm from horizontal during a controlled test would have invalidated the results of the test.
    Silly of me to point it out and ask it as no-one else has but I just had to.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    Just found a pound of Hercules 2400 in the back of the closet and this thread answered my question. Gun people are the best people.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    Late to this thread, thanks for doing the leg work Larry, great job. I'm about to do a run of M1 carbine rounds and I have a 1 lb cardboard carton of aliant, a 1lb square can of Hurcules, and a neighbor just gave me a 5 lb round red can of Hurcules 2400 unopened. These 3 lots of 2400 must span a 30-40 year period of time, I'm reluctant to mix lot # over this period, think I'll just do my load workups with the old 5 lb red round can. Run will be roughly 2500 rounds, should leave a little less than a pound when done if I load in the 12gr. range. Use the smaller quanities for short runs. Thanks for the work on pressure.
    Chris

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Awsome write up.
    How did I miss this.
    I just asked this vary question in another thread
    Failure is not an Option

  7. #27
    Boolit Mold
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    Interesting post, Larry. I got here because I had googled 2400 Hercules and after reading your post, wanted to reply.

    I now have my late father's Ruger that he bought in 1954. I have and still own a couple of .44 carbines (1894 Marlin and a Ruger) Dad taught me to reload for the .44 with an old Lyman (Ideal) nutcracker set up. His load for his pistol (he admitted it was "hot") and the load I always use for my carbines is: 24 grains of 2400 with a 240 gr bullet. My old Speer book only goes to 19 gr and I see here you are topping at 22 gr. Is this because newer guns aren't as strong as the older handguns? I'm sure my carbines can handle the pressure, but am curious why the "downgrade" in powder?

  8. #28
    Boolit Grand Master


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    PM'd answer.

    Larry Gibson

  9. #29
    Boolit Master


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    Thanks for digging this thread back up. Very useful to me. I think I have 2 partials and 6 unopened 1-pounders of very old 2400:


  10. #30
    Boolit Buddy
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    I was given a 4 lb keg of Herc #2400 shortly after I started loading. It was unopened when I got it and smelled fresh, so I've been using it with my Accurate 43-250-K bullets. I started out low (like 15 gr) and found that I get sticky cases in my Redhawk with anything over 19 gr. I don't have a chronograph so I don't know velocity, but this is where the book loads start for modern Alliant 2400. Then I hear all this internet chatter about the old Herc stuff being good for 22 gr and the new Alliant stuff being faster and requires slightly less. I'm a little mystified why my batch seems to top out at 19 gr, but it makes for dead nuts accurate loads in 357, 41, 44, and 45 so I'll be happy with it 'till it's gone, then switch to the new stuff. As a side note, I am using CCI 350 primers in all my loads as my testing showed significantly better groups with magnum primers.

  11. #31
    Boolit Grand Master


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    "Sticky extraction" in a DA revolver can also be caused by the extractor or unburnished chambers. Try using a small rod to eject the cases straight out instead of the ejector. If they push out easily then the problem is not a "pressure" one but is caused by the cases binding outward as the ejector pushes them out.

    Larry Gibson

  12. #32
    Boolit Man larryw's Avatar
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    Just got done reading the eval of 2400 then the rest of the thread.
    As with everything else I have found here so far, WOW, just WOW!!!

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy fivefang's Avatar
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    Dear Larry ,in 1960 I had a flat top .44 Blackhawk 6.5",27.5 gr.h.2400 under LymanG.C.215gr. this was very accurate,in '92 my red hawk,7.5" 300gr saeco G.C over 21.5 of wc 820 measured 1325 for 6 rnds. on a Oehler @ Markham Pk. Fl. ,I wish I had your information back then,thank's for sharing, Fivfang

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    Deep Six,
    YOur limit of 19 grains in the Redhawk is probably because of
    (more recent) typical rough chambers in rugers.
    with That load the cases would drop out of my SW 29 with but a tap on the ejector rod
    beltfed/arnie

  15. #35
    Boolit Bub Estacado's Avatar
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    Very nice read. Thanks for the effort

  16. #36
    Boolit Mold
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    Very informative. Thanks for sharing

  17. #37
    Boolit Master curioushooter's Avatar
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    Larry...thank you for this highly informative thread that is as important today as it was 9 years ago.

    Has a comparison of this sort been done with 357 Mag?

    I ask because there is wide variation in the load data, generally speaking about 1 grain less for the max loads of Alliant 2400 vs. Herc2400.

    I've found it difficult to really tell what kind of pressures one is dealing with if one want to stay at the 35k PSI map post-95' pressure levels.

  18. #38
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    curiousshooter

    No, I've not done a real comparison test in the 357 Magnum. Several have been asking for a test of 2400 in the 357 magnum but most want it done with the 358429 (Keith) bullet. I've not had that mould for years so I've not done any pressure testing with it. I favor the 358156, the 358477 and the Lee TL358-158 for most of my 38/357 loads. I use the TL over Bullseye for a low end load, the 358477 over Unique for a mid range load and the 358156 ove 2400 for a magnum level load.

    I've been going to cast some 358156s aas I've run out of them in a recent test. My normal load of Alliant 2400 is 14 gr in Winchester cases with a WSP primer with the 358156 Seated/crimped to/in 1st crimp groove. A test of that load 2 weeks ago gave 34,800 psi for 10 shots. That load pretty consistently runs just under the SAAMI MAP of 35,000 psi. That load is then usable for occasional use in my S&W M19 and for full time use in my Ruger SS. If I was to hunt with the 357 Magnum I have 2 other loads for the 358156 with H110 and 2400 that are of the old "original" loadings for the 357 magnum. They push 40,000 psi. I'll not shoot them in my M19 but they are fine in the Ruger and N frame S&Ws.

    What bullet would you be interested in for a side by side comparison of Hercules 2400 vs Alliant 2400?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  19. #39
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Was the Alliant 2400 a small grain stick powder(as it is now) in 2009?
    Charter Member #148

  20. #40
    Boolit Master curioushooter's Avatar
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    I'd be interested in 358429, and I could mail you some cast in 16:1 or 91-6-3 lead-tin-antimony.

    I also favor has check designs for full power loads but favor the square single groove SWC. I have an RCBS 358-158-SWCGC that is my go-to bullet.

    I ask because the Lee manual 2nd lists 15 + grains of herc2400 at under 35k psi.

    Recently I have been working in 300MP with a 686+ L-frame, which I think should be able to handle up to 40k. I have some J-mags so I don't like to ever take it over 35k.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check