44 mag Keith load

[ebg3]

I just cast a bunch of 255 Keith bullets and sized and lubed them with a batch of lube I just made. I used 16oz Beeswax and 14 oz Moly Lithium greese and ran it through a Lyman lube/sizer. I'm using 22grs 2400 with a Win. LP primer. The Bullets weigh 257grs lubed and I'm shooting them out of a 7.5" SBH. Accuracy seems to be good but leading is bad. I have not had a chance to chrono yet...anyone using a similar setup and what is your velocity. I'm thinking 1450fps or so. Thanks in advance,
Eddie

[HamGunner]

I don't know about the lube, but in my opinion everything else sounds good except for the charge weight of the 2400. Primer is okay, and your revolver is certainly strong enough for that load, but I think your leading and accuracy will be improved by dropping the charge down a bit. I find 20.5 to 21.0 grains of 2400 to be much better and in my 6 1/2 Ruger Flattop I get about 1,300 -1,350fps. With your load and another inch of barrel, you are probably fairly close on your guess.

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks to "Shuz" over in Spakane I became the owner of a brand new can of old Hercules 2400. I've test loads of 20, 20.5, 21, 21.5 and 22 gr of both that old Hercules 2400 and the same loads of new Alliant 2400 under a RCBS 44-250-K bullet ready to velocity/pressure using my Oehler M43 PBL hooked to an 8.4" TC Contender barrel. I'm just waiting for a break in the weather and then I'll post a detailed report comparing the two 2400s.

Larry Gibson

[geargnasher]

Thanks to "Shuz" over in Spakane I became the owner of a brand new can of old Hercules 2400. I've test loads of 20, 20.5, 21, 21.5 and 22 gr of both that old Hercules 2400 and the same loads of new Alliant 2400 under a RCBS 44-250-K bullet ready to velocity/pressure using my Oehler M43 PBL hooked to an 8.4" TC Contender barrel. I'm just waiting for a break in the weather and then I'll post a detailed report comparing the two 2400s.

Larry Gibson

Please do, Larry, I've been wondering ever since Alliant took over how those old Keith loads compare with the newer Alliant.

Plus, I still have almost a pound of Hercules 2400 left (from several purchased new in 1991) with which I have worked up several good loads, wanting to do a minimum of rework when fresh 2400 becomes available locally again.

Gear

[shotman]

thats why you are gettting leading drop down to the 18 -20 gr range.

[fivegunner]

I to would be intersted in what you found out about the old vs new 2400

[oldhickory]

With the new Alliant 2400 I'm using 20gr. with the RCBS 430250K in a 4" S&W 629-3 and accuracy is a lot better than I can hold the gun, recoil is very managable, (even rapid fire D-A shooting up close), and leading...What leading? There is hardly any to speak of! I'm casting WWs with just a little linotype in the mix, probably about 10-12bh. (I can mark them with my thumbnail). Cases are Star Line, w/CCI std. LPPs.

Right around 1100fps out of my 4" Smith. Plenty fast enough for me. Btw, my boolits pop out of the mold at 267-268gr.

I still have 3-4 cans of the old Hercules 2400 in square cans and it's supposed to be slower then the new stuff. When I get around to it, I'll load 22gr. of the old Herc with that boolit.

[vanilla_gorilla]

I normally load 21 grains 2400 with a RCBD 44-250-K which is 265 grains ready to load. That gives about 1310 fps from my 6 inch 29. Going to 22 grains gives right at 1400 fps from both my 6 inch 29 and a friend's 5 inch 629.

[RSOJim]

19 grains will send a 250 grain lead boolit clean thru any hog I have ever shot. How much more do you need ? Much easier on the gun and shooter. Jim

[ebg3]

Thanks for all the responses. Dad introduced me to reloading and shooting at an early age and he always loaded 20.7-21 grs 2400 behind a Keith bullet and used CCI mag pistol primers. Seems he told me he tried 22grs 2400 and did not have the accuracy that he got with 21grs. I must say that the 2400 he used was Hercules in 8lb cardboard containers. I'm using the same mold(Lyman) and lead to cast but I have a new 8lb can of 2400 and I'm using Win. large pistol primers. I guess I'll try 21grs and compare to 22grs and I'll chrono the loads out of my SBH. Leading is not bad with the 22gr load, so far as I can tell. I'll post results.
Thanks,
Eddie

[ebg3]

Got out too late this afternoon to chrono but I did shoot about 75 of the 22gr Keith loads for accuracy. I put my 2X Leupold scope on the gun to see how the loads shoot. It was so cold I found it hard to squeeze the trigger. I did get three 5 shot groups that measure 1.25" or less at 25 yards. In fact, the last group I shot today went 1.25" so I don't think leading is a problem with this load. I'll clean the barrel tomorrow and see what the leading looks like. I'll try to chrono 21 and 22 grs of 2400 this weekend to see what my velocities are. I did shoot two really good groups with 22grs 2400 under a gas-checked Keith bullet using Win. LP primers. I was really suprised at the amount of muzzle flash and cylinder flash I was getting with the gas checked rounds...a lot different than the plain based bullet.
EG

[leadman]

I use 18.5 grs, of new 2400 under the Lyman version of the Keith boolit. Around an inch at 25 yards, no leading, decreased recoil.

[Three44s]

I load the RCBS 250K.

With 2400 (late stuff) I use 18 gr. and magnum primers ......great load

.......... @ 19.0 gr. I switch to standard primers ....... great load

20.0 grs is my "bear lite" load ...... and it gives me 1262 fps out of a Smith 4"

I used to load 21.0 gr. and it ran 1300 fps out of the same 4" gun

After Brian Pearces work published in Handloader magazine I now top out at 20.5 to 20.6 gr. in 2400 and ALL loads above 18.0 gr. are lit with standard primers.

Three 44s

[ebg3]

I just cleaned my barrel from my last time out and there was a lot of lead in the barrel after 75rds. So much so that I don't know how it was shooting so accurately. Bullets were sized to .430 and were water dropped when cast. I opened my size die and they now size almost to .431 so I'm interested to see if this helps. I dropped the load to 21grs 2400 and will compare it to 22grs with the larger sized bullets. When I cast next, I'm going to just towel cool the bullets to see how they do. Any other advice on how to reduce leading? I think my lube is OK, it is pretty much a 50/50 lube. I think the leading is coming from bullets being a bit fast/undersized. Note: the leading is in the first 2.5" of the barrel...I've got a few thousand rounds through this gun and the rifling looks good. Thanks,
Eddie

[NHlever]

To reduce that leading, your boolits need to fit the throats of your chambers in the cylinder. I had a .431 sizing die, and just opened it to .432 today since I'm getting some leading in a new to me SBH. The bullets shouldn't fall through the throats by themselves, they should need just a little push with your finger.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive owned probably 2 dozen ruger 44s over the years and never had one that didnt do just fine with 430 bullets. My guess is two things. First your pushing the edge of the envelope for non gas checked bullets. Especially with 2400. A switch to a slightly slower burning powder like aa9 or better yet 110/296 would probably help. Another thing i would at least experiment with is your lube. Lars will give a free sample out so get a sample of his corduba and his mix of corduba and alox and see if it improves. Im bettting it will. If you dont want to change these things go with your gas checked bullets. Or at least shoot a cylinder full of them every 3 clyinder to clean the lead out.

[ebg3]

Cylinder mouths are close to .432, .430 bullets fall through. My sizing die now is about .431. I may be pushing the bullets to the upper limit, I am going to try 21grs 2400 to see if leading decreases. I do have a Keith GC mould and will try those too. I am still surprised at the accuracy even after the leading built up. This is what makes reloading and casting fun and interesting!

[Larry Gibson]

ebg3

Two things; the alloy may not be strong enough for 22 gr of 2400. Your home made lube with beeswax/lithium grease may not be up to the task. I just completed a test of both old and new 2400s loading up to 22 gr of each powder. The test gun was a 8.4" barreled TC Contender. The most accurate loads on target was 20.5 and 21 gr of each powder. At 22 gr accuracy was going even though the internal ballistics were essentially as good as with the lower powder charges. That told me the 22 gr load was too much for the PB'd RCBS 44-250-K cast of WW + 2% tin. As to the lube; I was using Javelina and did not clean the barrel during the 100 round test of that bullet - there was no leading what so ever after the 100 rounds.

You don't say what alloy you are using; if WWs then try WQing them for the 22 gr load. Also try Javelina, Lars BAC or some other known alox/beeswax lube to see if your home brew is up to snuff.

Larry Gibson

[MT Gianni]

FYI, Larrys 2400 report is now in Classics and Stickys.

[ebg3]

Thanks Larry,
My alloy is medical supply lead that held individual small containers of stuff like xenon. The alloy is fairly hard and seems to be similar to wheel weights. Bullets cast from a Lyman 429421 mould weigh 256-257grs after they have been sized and lubed. These that I just cast I dropped in water from the mould, I can't mark them with my fingernail. I was wondering if my problem would actually go away if I didn't water drop them. I'm going out this afternoon to try a few more things. It could be my lube isn't up to the task but I figured it would be very close to the NRA lube and I read good things about it from others. Would adding more beeswax or a little candlewax maybe help the performance? Thanks for all the input,
Eddie