35 Rem Small Ring Mauser

[StarMetal]

I am trying to make him understand the seriousness of the project and the potential dangers of it not being done right to himself and others in the area. Doing things "cheap" usually involves cutting corners that create dangerous conditions.Do it right regardless of the cost.
Guns have a bad habit of going boom and throwing shrapnel when not put together properly.
Also small ring Mausers do not have the gas venting features of the 98 in case of a ruptured primer or case failure.
Reading a book or two or renting a video to get some idea of what is involved would be a good start. A mentor would even better.
I screwed up a $300 Hart barrel on my first attempt because I didn't set the lathe for the right thread pitch! I recently figured out that the bedding block in the H-S Precision stock is crooked causing the action to only have 25% contact making the thing shoot 1 1/2'' group @ 100 yards! Bedding the action solved the problem.
That little mistake setting the levers on the lathe made me build another rifle on an Turkish Mauser action costing another couple hundred.
"Show off my gunsmithing prowness"? Hell no, I am trying to help him avoid the costly mistakes I have made! With the time and money I spent on machinery and tooling I could have a safe full of pretty rifles and a lot less grey hair!
I want this gentleman to learn from my mistakes and the mistakes of others and take the time and spend the money to do it right so in the end he has a safe rifle that shoots good too.
I think that first rifle has only cost me about $10,000.

Ok..good...we're on the same page then.

Joe

[swheeler]

"Shaw makes the A&B barrels for Midway and a prethreaded short chambered barrel is the way to go for your first project." quote by Deltaenterprizes

Not true as far as I know, Battenfield Technologies ACTUALLY makes the barrels, unless you have some insider information

[StarMetal]

I say "screw the barrel nut". The bbl nut is only there to make a production mfg process easier. Or to allow you to order a bbl from some gun in OH and screw it on your rifle in AK and adjust the headspace.

If you do good work you will not need or want a barrel nut unless you wanted to use the same barrel on several different actions (and did not want to take the time to make the actions all the same).

The barrel nut is just a shortcut to doing a proper job.

Bill

.................and the Savage barrel nut system shoots a heck of a lot better then most regular barrel systems. I don't know about aiding faster production, if anything it cost them more money having to make the nuts.

Joe

[swheeler]

I say "screw the barrel nut". The bbl nut is only there to make a production mfg process easier. Or to allow you to order a bbl from some gun in OH and screw it on your rifle in AK and adjust the headspace.

If you do good work you will not need or want a barrel nut unless you wanted to use the same barrel on several different actions (and did not want to take the time to make the actions all the same).

The barrel nut is just a shortcut to doing a proper job.

Bill

The guy said he wanted a SWITCH BARREL gun in the first post. Savage, and a lot of Savage shooters, may argue your last sentence.

[StarMetal]

..............First of all thanks for finally posting How's it feel? Secondly my apologies for the rather poor photo's. A long ago 1st gen digital and it's software.



I built a 35 Rem on a M1894 Brazilian SR Mauser action (made by FN) with a 16" twist. I'm not much for plastic stocks but this deal was on the cheap and CDNN or a similar place had the RamLine stocks on closeout for $39. It also wears the least expensive Williams sight available.



The front sight was a Rem 700 ramp out of the junk box. A filler block in the magazine and shortening the follower might be benificial but I haven't had any problems with it, and did no alterations to the bolt, extractor or ejector.



These are some 50 yard 5 shot groups shot with the 200gr Saeco (shown loaded on the follower in above pic) and using surplus WC846 ball powder.



A few 'fooling around' light loads. Didn't like that smallish 9mm boolit too much. I size to .359" and the 9mm slug just made .357".

..............Buckshot

Rick,

Nice job! I don't like plastic stocks either but I put one on my 6.5x54MS Savage cause it was dirt cheap...but they sure have lots of advantages.

Joe

[swheeler]

"I screwed up a $300 Hart barrel on my first attempt because I didn't set the lathe for the right thread pitch!" by deltaenterprizes

I still shoot my first, from 17 years ago, a Wilson contoured blank for 60.00. Even though it cost so little compared to yours I made sure everything was correct, measure twice-cut once.

[bstarling]

WOW! I never dreamed that I would get such a response. This is very encouraging to me. Oh, regarding the grey hair, I already have a head full of it, so a few more hopefully won't kill me. Please everyone keep the ideas coming in. I can see for sure I'm not the first to consider something like this.

On the barrel nut deal, I am thinking about doing it just to do it. That is not required by any means, just a learning experience. I don't think using a short chambered barrel and a finishing reamer would be too much of a task to get it right. I learned a long time ago that you better measure at least twice and cut once. It is by far easier to take it off than it is to put it back if you over cut.

Thanks to all, Bill

[swheeler]

WOW! I never dreamed that I would get such a response. This is very encouraging to me. Oh, regarding the grey hair, I already have a head full of it, so a few more hopefully won't kill me. Please everyone keep the ideas coming in. I can see for sure I'm not the first to consider something like this.

On the barrel nut deal, I am thinking about doing it just to do it. That is not required by any means, just a learning experience. I don't think using a short chambered barrel and a finishing reamer would be too much of a task to get it right. I learned a long time ago that you better measure at least twice and cut once. It is by far easier to take it off than it is to put it back if you over cut.

Thanks to all, Bill

Bill: I really like your switch barrel idea! Finn Aagard(believe it was Finn) had a write up and a bunch of photos of one many years ago, beautiful set up, quick detach forearm too and spanner wrench whole thing was set to switch in field or camp. You could also google Rhineland arms, they sold nutted barrel set ups for LR-SR mausers and SMLE rifles- they were ER SHAW barrels on their kits. Sounds like it is time for you to get an action- or do you have it, that's where to start. Nowdays you can rent about every tool you'll need, didn't used to be that way. Stick with your original plan about the barrel nut- we want to see pictures! Scot

[deltaenterprizes]

"I screwed up a $300 Hart barrel on my first attempt because I didn't set the lathe for the right thread pitch!" by deltaenterprizes

I still shoot my first, from 17 years ago, a Wilson contoured blank for 60.00. Even though it cost so little compared to yours I made sure everything was correct, measure twice-cut once.

This project was the first attempt at machining after a long year long illness and a mind still full of cobwebs from large doses of strong medication that caused short term memory loss, and it ain't much better now. Best part of the whole story is I remembered (wrongly) that a Remington 700 action was 20 TPI and set the lathe to cut 28 TPI and could not figure out why I could not get the action to even attempt to start threading on the barrel! Dazed and confused,
Research led me to find out that a small ring Mauser uses a barrel shank diameter of .985" and my screwed up barrel shank had enough metal left to clean up to that diameter. Further research led me to find out about K.Kale Turkish Mauser actions, made in the 1940s, being a 98 large ring action with a small ring bore and thread and having the benefit of having better metallurgy than in late 1890s when a lot of the small ring Mausers were manufactured. There is more to this story, but it all worked out in the end.

[StarMetal]

This project was the first attempt at machining after a long year long illness and a mind still full of cobwebs from large doses of strong medication that caused short term memory loss, and it ain't much better now. Best part of the whole story is I remembered (wrongly) that a Remington 700 action was 20 TPI and set the lathe to cut 28 TPI and could not figure out why I could not get the action to even attempt to start threading on the barrel! Dazed and confused,
Research led me to find out that a small ring Mauser uses a barrel shank diameter of .985" and my screwed up barrel shank had enough metal left to clean up to that diameter. Further research led me to find out about K.Kale Turkish Mauser actions, made in the 1940s, being a 98 large ring action with a small ring bore and thread and having the benefit of having better metallurgy than in late 1890s when a lot of the small ring Mausers were manufactured. There is more to this story, but it all worked out in the end.

Sorry to hear about your past illness, but common sense would tell you (for one thing) not to run a dangerous piece of machinery like a lathe when you're mind and body aren't up to full capacity. Medications that can effect you say this on the bottle. If you couldn't wait to do the project you should have had someone there to help you and double check you. Now I wonder when you did get that barrel on another action how safe your reloads were under your condition.

Joe

[deltaenterprizes]

No reloads, I was using factory ammo at the time. Medicine had been stopped for over a month. It was a short trip from the house to the garage and my new to me lathe had different type of settings for pitch settings one lever was one notch off. I now write everything down and take drawing with me to the machine. If you have never made a mistake machining you are not doing any work.
One shop I worked in the bosses son made a beautiful brass 3/4'' acme thread valve stem, problem it was right hand thread and it needed to be left hand thread, lucky they has ordered twice as much material as needed. We used the bad one for a hammer to true work in the chuck.

[StarMetal]

No reloads, I was using factory ammo at the time. Medicine had been stopped for over a month. It was a short trip from the house to the garage and my new to me lathe had different type of settings for pitch settings one lever was one notch off. I now write everything down and take drawing with me to the machine. If you have never made a mistake machining you are not doing any work.
One shop I worked in the bosses son made a beautiful brass 3/4'' acme thread valve stem, problem it was right hand thread and it needed to be left hand thread, lucky they has ordered twice as much material as needed. We used the bad one for a hammer to true work in the chuck.

I would have become more familiar with the new lathe before tackling a serious job. I wish you the best and hope illness has cleared up totally and your mine is clear. Stay healthy and happy machining.

Joe

[dubber123]

[QUOTE=deltaenterprizes;767477]If you have never made a mistake machining you are not doing any work.


No truer words ever spoken than those right there...

[bstarling]

Bill: I really like your switch barrel idea! Finn Aagard(believe it was Finn) had a write up and a bunch of photos of one many years ago, beautiful set up, quick detach forearm too and spanner wrench whole thing was set to switch in field or camp. You could also google Rhineland arms, they sold nutted barrel set ups for LR-SR mausers and SMLE rifles- they were ER SHAW barrels on their kits. Sounds like it is time for you to get an action- or do you have it, that's where to start. Nowdays you can rent about every tool you'll need, didn't used to be that way. Stick with your original plan about the barrel nut- we want to see pictures! Scot

I have an action on a Spanish M93 Oviedo 7 x 57, but hate to do in the barrel. The rifle is a real shooter with a nice sharp shiny bore. It will do 1MOA in the hands of someone more steady than I. A friend of mine shot it last week and was shocked how well it shot. I guess, I'll be looking into getting another action since this seems to be coming together.

I went on the Rhineland site and only saw some 45 ACP conversions. I have sent them an e-mail about suppling a 35 Rem set up. I'll have to wait and see. I will definitely plan this project out before I spend my retirement check on it.

Thanks,

Bill

[atr]

Bill,,,
I have a M93 Oviedo in 7x57 also,,,,and I want to get rid of that barrel.....its a terrible shooter
I think you are very lucky to have one that shoots as accurately as you say.....
But,
This thread for the 35 Rem. has me intrigued, and Im thinking about converting my M93 to this caliber

[bstarling]

Bill,,,
I have a M93 Oviedo in 7x57 also,,,,and I want to get rid of that barrel.....its a terrible shooter
I think you are very lucky to have one that shoots as accurately as you say.....
But,
This thread for the 35 Rem. has me intrigued, and Im thinking about converting my M93 to this caliber

ATR,

Jump on in. The more comment we get here the better the outcome of the conversion. I am more determined than ever to make this thing work, barrel nut and all. I may even break down and buy a more expensive barrel that is more or less ready to go. That would be better than making a mess out of the job with my small lathe and having to pay to fix my screw up. I don't think the barrel nut would present any problem on my setup though.


Bill

[StarMetal]

ATR,

Jump on in. The more comment we get here the better the outcome of the conversion. I am more determined than ever to make this thing work, barrel nut and all. I may even break down and buy a more expensive barrel that is more or less ready to go. That would be better than making a mess out of the job with my small lathe and having to pay to fix my screw up. I don't think the barrel nut would present any problem on my setup though.


Bill

Bill,

Be aware that Mausers that have the inner collar have that breech torqued on that collar. With the barrel nut you will have to screw it into the collar at least just snug, then tighten the nut. I would then prefer a barrel where the chamber is just short of fully cut and then finish ream it to the fit of the go and no go gauges.

About the nut. You thinking about making the nut a hex nut? Very unattractive if you do. If you're going to make it the Savage style then you're talking machining it, including the slots for the wrench, and inside threading. I wouldn't get carried away with the torque. According to Savage and one of the top savage builders in the country you can torque it just snug if not swapping barrels out all the time, to torquing it to about 35-40 pounds if you intend barrel swapping.



Joe

[deltaenterprizes]

I don't know how old you are, but this is what you have to look forward to, and its gets worse as you get older. When I was a kid we laughed at my grandparents when they couldn't remember where they put something, but now I understand why I was taught "a place for everything and everything in it's place". Mistakes happen,that is how 90% of us got here.

[deltaenterprizes]

The nut could be made with two flats and oriented where the flats were on the side and the radii are on the top and bottom to give a pleasant appearance.

[bob208]

i did some 95 actions many years ago. they made into nice .35 cal rifles. it was no big deal got prethreaded short chambered barrels. i mite have gotten them from numrich. did most of the work by hand and my 12" craftsman lathe.

i will say you do need a better lathe. a 9" southbend at the least. a 13" would be better.