three groove barrel ?

[Bullshop]

I am looking at having some barrels rebored but the service only offers a three groove barrel.
Before I commit to anything I would like to hear some opinions on the three groove barrel.
Did the trapdoor 45/70 have a three groove barrel?
Does anyone have a any contact info for Norm Johnson in Turtle Lake ND?
I have lost his address.
Thanks all!
BIC/BS

[jbc]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...groove+rifling

[jbc]

Norm Johnson
243 14th Ave N.W.
Turtle Lake, ND 58575
[701]448-9188
nrjonsn@westriv.com

[Eutectic]

Did the trapdoor 45/70 have a three groove barrel?
BIC/BS

Yes.... and they shot pretty well with 405gr cast W A Y back when I was a kid!

If you are interested in the 3 groovers cut by that JES outfit in Oregon so am I.

Rifling is .005" deep in bore sizes I have an interest in. Would like to know his land and groove width as well! Does one get pressure signs earlier with "J" words?

Guess I'm interested..... Here's Norm's info

Norm Johnson 701-448-9188
243 14th Avenue NW
Turtle Lake ND 58575

E-Mail: nrjonsn@westriv.com

[KCSO]

Bull shop if you are looking at Jesse's tubes they are first rate and work well with cast. i have one in 38-55 and it is as good as any barrel I have ever shot.

[Bullshop]

Good I think I will give one a try. I am planing to pick up old 30/06 rifles and re boring them to 375 and chambering them to 375 Scovill. Hope to have rifles and ammo available in our shop.
I am very impressed with the cartridge, enough that I bought a reamer.
It is a ballistic twin to the new 370 Federal. What one will do with any bullet weight the other will do too.
I cant figure why Federal brought out the 370 and seemingly never considered casters or re-loaders especially with the growing numbers of such.
The 370 is a 9.3mm with an odd size case in contrast with the 375 Scovill or Whelen using the standard 30/06 case and a caliber common to us reloaders, 375.
I have been able to duplicate claimed ballistics for the 370 Federal with a 375 Scovill with the 286gn bullet weight. With our 375gn boolits I can get 4000 FPE. A very useful power range/bore diameter/ boolit weight range for the large game it may be used on here like moose, bison,and brown bears.
BIC/BS

[Eutectic]

Bull shop if you are looking at Jesse's tubes they are first rate and work well with cast. i have one in 38-55 and it is as good as any barrel I have ever shot.

KCSO,

Could you please give me an idea of the rifling configuration?

By this, I mean do lands and grooves appear equal width? Or are lands wider than grooves or grooves wider than lands?

Thanks, Eutectic

[KCSO]

Currently, Jesse is tooled to do the following calibers and twist rates only:

.338 cal. ( .339" groove diameter)
.35 cal. ( .359" groove diameter)
.375 cal. ( .376" groove diameter)
.405 cal. ( .412" groove diameter)
.44 cal. (.431" groove diameter)

Choice of twist rates as short as 1-9".
3-groove only.

[Ben]

I sent Jesse in OR my Weatherby Vanguard factory chambered in .308 Win. I requested a rebore with a 1-14 twist in .35 cal. and the barrel to be chambered in 358 WIn.

The barrel would have 3 grooves and their height would be .005 ".

Needless to say, I'm VERY PLEASED with my decision. The interior of the bore looks like a mirror. I'm amazed at how smooth this barrel is !

This group was shot with my Lyman 358009 HPs ( bullets sized .3592 ) ( mold HP'd by Erik ) , 5 shots at 75 yards :

[yondering]

Why does he cut the 35 cal at .359"? This would seem a bad idea if you ever want to use .358" jacketed bullets, and seems that it would limit which cast boolits you could use, since a bunch of them seem to be made for .358". Is his work intended for cast shooting only? I use both in my Whelen, but it has a .358" groove diameter as made by Remington.

Looking at the list again, it appears all of his bores are cut .001" or more larger than standard dimensions. Anybody know why?

[Bullshop]

KCSO
You don't have 50 cal (.510") on the list. I talked with him on the phone last week and he told me he can bore for a 50 Alaskan.
He said there would be a $75.00 additional fee for 50 Ak. because he would have to rent a reamer. Since I will likely have more than one done I bought a reamer.
The reamer from Pacific tool is $130.00 so the math is pretty simple there.
As soon as my reamers arrive I intend to test the water with a 1917 Enfield that will become a 375 Scovill.
I asked him about the possibility of problems with removing the original barrel without damage to the receiver or barrel and he said if need be he could do it while still on the receiver.
BIC/BS

[Multigunner]

Extensive testing as far back as the 1840's suggested that a three groove bore will almost always be more accurate than a four groove bore, all other things equal.
A five groove is as accurate or more so than a three groove, a Seven groove as good as a five, but a six groove was considered the most accurate, with a Nine groove being more accurate than a six.

The opinion was that an unequal number of grooves worked better to center the bullet in the bore, and multiples of three grooves increased the efficiency.

These were Black powder and Lead muzzle loaders of course, but the basic principle seems to be sound.

[jbc]

KCSO
You don't have 50 cal (.510") on the list. I talked with him on the phone last week and he told me he can bore for a 50 Alaskan.
He said there would be a $75.00 additional fee for 50 Ak. because he would have to rent a reamer. Since I will likely have more than one done I bought a reamer.
The reamer from Pacific tool is $130.00 so the math is pretty simple there.
As soon as my reamers arrive I intend to test the water with a 1917 Enfield that will become a 375 Scovill.
I asked him about the possibility of problems with removing the original barrel without damage to the receiver or barrel and he said if need be he could do it while still on the receiver.
BIC/BS

you are talking about two different gunsmiths - he is talking about Jesse in Oregon not Norm Johnson

[Bullshop Junior]

Yes I had Jesse on the phone and he said he will do the 50 Alaskan and the cartridge does appear on his web site as one of his offerings.
BIC/BS

[KCSO]

Bullshop that's off of an old brochure, I guess I never thought to ask for an update.

Sorry

But if you are shooting cast you can't do any better than Jesse

[Ben]

yondering :

Looking at the list again, it appears all of his bores are cut .001" or more larger than standard dimensions. Anybody know why?

Just a guess on my part, but I think it is because of the TALL .005 lands that are in his barrels. That displaced bullet metal has to go somewhere......

Someone else may have a different opinion.

Ben

[StarMetal]

I have a friend that got into the 6.8 AR15's heavy. In order to increase velocity and not pressure, he had three groove rifling with a slower twist. It did indeed increase velocity dramatically.

Joe

[Hardcast416taylor]

Bullshop. If you want to shoot and reload for a .370 Federal, you must use Federal brass due to it being a propriatary cartridge = $$$$.Robert

[Marlin Junky]

I sent Jesse in OR my Weatherby Vanguard factory chambered in .308 Win. I requested a rebore with a 1-14 twist in .35 cal. and the barrel to be chambered in 358 WIn.

The barrel would have 3 grooves and their height would be .005 ".

Needless to say, I'm VERY PLEASED with my decision. The interior of the bore looks like a mirror. I'm amazed at how smooth this barrel is !

This group was shot with my Lyman 358009 HPs ( bullets sized .3592 ) ( mold HP'd by Erik ) , 5 shots at 75 yards :

Ben,

Ahhh, that's the stuff.

What was the velocity of that load? At what velocity do your groups start to open?

I would have never considered a three groove configuration for my .358 project until now.

MJ

[Ben]

MJ :

Unfortunately that is a very mild load in the 358 Win. 14.8 grs. 2400
I doubt that load is breaking 1,500 fps. I have not tried to push that bullet hard yet. I have some loads ready that will be in the 2,000 fps range with the 358009. I'll know soon how the bullet performs at substantially higher speeds.

I've shot my 358318 HP s at 2,000 fps with great accuracy. See below:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67463