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Thread: .22 derimming with a BANG !

  1. #1
    Boolit Master



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    .22 derimming with a BANG !

    Maybe just me, but I get a big percentage of Remington bulk box .22s that don't go bang. But I like the brass because it seems to be cleaner inside than most others after firing. Anyway, I usually pull the lead from duds, fertilize the lawn with the powder, and clean 'em up like all the others for derimming(boiling water/Dawn for me). Reading one of the other threads where discussion came up on size of derimming punch made me curious enough to go to my man-cave and mike my punch(0.200" BTW), then hey, I'm there , oughta do something , so grabbed my pile of cleaned and dried .22 LR Remington brass and started derimming - the third one went "CRACK", I'm "What the H... ?", smelled like a cap gun went off. Thought maybe I had pulled a bullet from an unfired .22 LR by mistake, so after cleaning punch, went back to derimming, visually inspecting for firing pin mark on each first - had 2 more "CRACKs" before finishing. Weird, huh ?
    So I know that Dawn and boiling water will not remove unfired priming compound from Remington brass and that it may still be potent after drying. While no damage appears to have been done the debris from the compounds can't be doing my punch (or nerves)any good so in the future, I won't be as frugal, I will toss the dud brass !

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy

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    I've had some go pop that have been fired, boiled, and cleaned in the ultrasonic. Go figure?
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master sagacious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooterg View Post
    ... boiling water will not remove unfired priming compound from Remington brass and that it may still be potent after drying. While no damage appears to have been done the debris from the compounds can't be doing my punch (or nerves)any good so in the future, I won't be as frugal, I will toss the dud brass !
    I have noticed exactly the same occurrance of dud rounds. Some of the inexpensive Remington 22lr ammo seems to suffer from a priming flaw of some sort. The Rem "golden bullet" line was/is notorious for this.

    Frugality is not the problem-- it is the fundamental reason for using fired 22lr brass as a jacket material. You need not toss the duds, simply modify your process for derimming those cases.

    Separate the dud brass from the fired brass. Do not draw dried brass that may still contain some live primer material. After the brass been boiled, drain it and place the cases on a towel to blot the water. Then run it through your die as usual. The residual primer compound will not go off while wet.

    Unfired 22lr cases are too good to just toss, especially when they can be derimmed safely. In addition to the ones I pick-up myself, every now and then I get a coffee can or two of unfired, discarded 22lr rounds from my local range. It's good stuff, and certainly well worth the time it takes to pull-apart on a rainy winter day.

    Hope this helps, good luck.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master


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    I made a shell holder to hold dud 22LRs to pull them with a collet type bullet puller. Pliers are better than the collet.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master



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    I'm with Delta - I use my Leatherman - the second most useful tool my wife ever gave me ! (Dillon 550 is first )

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    Won't have that issue if you anneal them first...

    B.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master



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    I've done annealing both before and after derimming. With my Blackmon die and punch, if I anneal before, about every third one stays on the punch, resulting in use of foul language and a hammer on my part! No sticking if I anneal afterwards.
    I have an older Corbin "wiper" type derimmer that works fine if you anneal beforehand.

  8. #8
    Boolit Man Rat-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooterg View Post
    I have an older Corbin "wiper" type derimmer that works fine if you anneal beforehand.
    Ok I gotta ask. What is that, and what does it look like?

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    The punch has a cup/washer affair that pushes the case off the punch.

    I have thought a person could make oneout of spring stell that goes on the top of a derimming die and allows to flex for punch with case to go through then colapses on the punch to strip the jacket. Kind of like the old bonanza bullet pullers ( may still be available) that you put ram at top of travel pushed on and lowered ram. Hard to explain but if you see one you will know how it works.

  10. #10
    Boolit Man Rat-Man's Avatar
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    Thanks,

    I think I know what you are talking about, I think I have seen a picture of that bullet puller before.


    Is this it?
    Last edited by Rat-Man; 12-31-2009 at 02:01 PM. Reason: Add image I found

  11. #11
    Boolit Master pertnear's Avatar
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    Old thread, but it happened to me! Glad I don't anneal first!

    I was derimming a bucket of picked-up .22lr cases & I guess someone had removed a bullet on a dud round at the range. I noticed that it went onto the punch tight, but didn't think anything of it until it went BANG! Nothing was hurt & lesson learned.

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  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    Many of those duds if you just turn them 180 degrees and hit them again they will go off. Only a very rare one does not go the first time you do that. When I was a kid shooting small bore inside I fired one every 90 degrees and it never did go but that was a one time event .
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  13. #13
    Boolit Man
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    First my "opinion" of cheap ammo:
    From the days when Walmart switched from Federal Champions (decent plinking ammo) in the white box to Remington Thunderbolts in the green box I have maybe fired three bricks of the Remington. To put in perspective from before had a drivers license and rode with Mom or Dad to K-Mart/Walmart never walked in either without putting a brick of the cheapest rimfire in the buggy. As hit driving age trips might take me to Walmart two or three times a week leaving with a brick each trip. When they brought Federal Automatch in the 325 round cartons added one to my brick, started stocking 100 round packs of 12 gauge field and skeet load that was added. Thus every trip it was brick of Thunderbolts, carton of Automatch and 100 rounds of skeet loads. Walmart is 800 yards from the front door of my business in same building as Lowes which visit too much.

    Pre Sandy Hook may have gone in Walmart three to five days per week thus not uncommon to buy 10 to 15 bricks some weeks but Thunderbolt is such cr@p don't even use it with my Boy Scout troops where supply ammo out of my pocket. Have helped over 800 kids get their marksmanship merit badge. Worst thing in the world is a kid with low self esteem, never held a gun, all others in group made their qualification watching the poor kid work under stress not wanting to be only one to not earn his badge. First hour on range pick out two or three kids that can shoot, give each a group who are having minimal trouble and I take kids with significant issues. 30 years ago most had some experience, now over half have never held a firearm.

    Some we don't tell their parents we are shooting guns but talk up the bow & arrows then let kids realize brought bows and rifles. I supply most rifles which have to be iron sight turn bolts. Have collected up a decent pile of kids rifles, even taken a pair of Chipmunks done trigger work, relieved stress on barrel but can't fully float them as need a pressure point but bed them and improve the sights so the smaller kids have best chance and always have a cheater rifle like my Anschutz and another smaller high end rifle in the truck in case one is struggling terribly can hand them a "sleeper". That said I don't shoot Remington Thunderbolts in any of my rifles nor do I even use it when giving free ammo to a group of twenty to thirty kids. I did sell a half metric ton of the stuff during Sandy Hook use the Federal Automatch for plinking, Boy Scouts and church groups.

    40% of my shooting use entry level match ammo and 20% top level match as its feeding nice rifles and especially now it's not much more expensive than bargain ammo. Like Eley Edge/Match/Tenex, SK Flatnose Standard/ Flatnose Match, Federal Automatch/Gold Medal HV Match/Gold Medal Target and my absolute favorite day to day rimfire CCI Green Tag. Then 30% is used for pest control like Aguila Super Extra for squirrel and chipmunks then Sniper Subsonic 60 grain for ground hogs, coyote, etc. Almost ran out of Automatch, CCI Green Tag and Aguila Sniper Subsonic during Sandy Hook and was near panic. Had over a quarter million rounds of Thunderbolts which converted over half to cash to buy match.

    If pulled any ammo that regularly failed to fire, didn't properly burn primer mix which has to affect accuracy would not finish the brick and like my Thunderbolts would be stockpiled for barter/resale with Federal Automatch for lowest level plinking but when most 10/22's has a Kidd, Volquartsen, Shilen or similar custom barrels plus Anschutz rifles, etc not going to feed them cr@p. Don't understand tolerating ammo that misfires often even for bouncing tin cans around the yard. I won't even tolerate rimfire ammo or rifles that won't cluster ten rounds in a ragged hole at 25 yards or shoot under two MOA at 100 yards.

    Life is too short and training time too valuable to not know if it's the rifle, ammo or shooter that *****ed the shot. On the Ponderosa it can only be me that messes up the shot. At work two sides of property line are city limits (aka no gunfire) and have four pecan trees thus kill several hundred squirrel per year. Due to surrounding neighbors a bullet can't cross my fence line period. I built two shop rifles using 16.5" Kidd barrels both with suppressors and use Auguila Subsonic with good glass.

    Back on topic
    I anneal before swaging as do get a fair amount of rimfire from friends who save it for me, Boy Scout range pickups and sweepings from my indoor range. With scrambled lumbar, broken thoracic and broken cervical spine have to make everything as low impact as possible. That means in loading room and when training. I anneal in a programmable heat treat oven as a lot gathers, derim and pour in five gallon bucket. To date have that bucket almost 2/3 full and not swaging 224 bullets yet, will be ready to run hard when get all my equipment gathered. Now am looking for press then will probably start uniforming the big bucket with set of pinch dies. Since take in pick ups with my good cases which are soaked in a commercial cleaning solvent first (may be key for me) have yet to experience a pop in my derim die.

    Wife would not like it and though we wear glasses at the bench I like to try and load in safe manner. Over a million rounds before had a mistake can say could have been avoided. Destroyed receiver and bolt of an AR but nobody hurt, Thank God. Can now buy Aguila Standard Velocity .22 Long Rifle Ammunition 50 Rounds 40 Grain Lead Solid Point 1130fps which am using when can't find Automatch at fair price. Current price is 29.99 to my door on bricks and if go though volume dealer able to buy a 10,000 round lot at 19.99 brick. Have one online supplier that runs specials on CCI Blazer Rimfire .22 LR Ammunition 40 Grain LRN 1235fps for $17.9 to 19.99 per brick lately, usually with five brick limit and my bulk source let's me have 10,000 round cases for $14.99 per brick on special on occasion. Trying to restock some of the Thunderbolt sold off during Sandy Hook. Blazer shoots like bargain ammo but even in my light trigger, light spring rifles with light titanium firing pins they go pop every time when have tested random boxes out of each bulk purchase. The bulk ammo am teaming up with a gun shop and another client (owns three American Arms 180's and won't shoot ammo that misfires in his $15,000 full auto rimfires) to buy pallets often allowing them to have an edge on their competition. The Aguila and Blazer are almost regular deals and with word out need rimfire cases have guys at gun shops always handing me a zip lock bag or two of cases now. Wish I had started collecting cases a decade ago.

    All my rimfire goes in a screen dip bucket then in five gallon bucket of Berryman Chem-Dip Professional Parts Cleaner. It's $100 bucket and is "The fastest acting immersion cleaner for all metal parts including alloys. Non-corrosive to metal and requires no agitation. A chemical seal retards evaporation and aids in emulsification. Removes carbon, varnish, paint, sludge, and grease fast. Chemical CompoundDichloromethane; Xylene (mixed isomers); Cresol (mixed m- & p- isomers)". It's good stuff for cleaning anything metal.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hueyville View Post
    First my "opinion" of cheap ammo:




    If pulled any ammo that regularly failed to fire, didn't properly burn primer mix which has to affect accuracy would not finish the brick and like my Thunderbolts would be stockpiled for barter/resale with Federal Automatch for lowest level plinking but when most 10/22's has a Kidd, Volquartsen, Shilen or similar custom barrels plus Anschutz rifles, etc not going to feed them cr@p. Don't understand tolerating ammo that misfires often even for bouncing tin cans around the yard. I won't even tolerate rimfire ammo or rifles that won't cluster ten rounds in a ragged hole at 25 yards or shoot under two MOA at 100 yards.


    Back on topic
    I anneal before swaging as do get a fair amount of rimfire from friends who save it for me, Boy Scout range pickups and sweepings from my indoor range. With scrambled lumbar, broken thoracic and broken cervical spine have to make everything as low impact as possible. That means in loading room and when training. I anneal in a programmable heat treat oven as a lot gathers, derim and pour in five gallon bucket. To date have that bucket almost 2/3 full and not swaging 224 bullets yet, will be ready to run hard when get all my equipment gathered. Now am looking for press then will probably start uniforming the big bucket with set of pinch dies. Since take in pick ups with my good cases which are soaked in a commercial cleaning solvent first (may be key for me) have yet to experience a pop in my derim die.

    Wife would not like it and though we wear glasses at the bench I like to try and load in safe manner. Over a million rounds before had a mistake can say could have been avoided. Destroyed receiver and bolt of an AR but nobody hurt, Thank God. Can now buy Aguila Standard Velocity .22 Long Rifle Ammunition 50 Rounds 40 Grain Lead Solid Point 1130fps which am using when can't find Automatch at fair price. Current price is 29.99 to my door on bricks and if go though volume dealer able to buy a 10,000 round lot at 19.99 brick. Have one online supplier that runs specials on CCI Blazer Rimfire .22 LR Ammunition 40 Grain LRN 1235fps for $17.9 to 19.99 per brick lately, usually with five brick limit and my bulk source let's me have 10,000 round cases for $14.99 per brick on special on occasion. Trying to restock some of the Thunderbolt sold off during Sandy Hook. Blazer shoots like bargain ammo but even in my light trigger, light spring rifles with light titanium firing pins they go pop every time when have tested random boxes out of each bulk purchase. The bulk ammo am teaming up with a gun shop and another client (owns three American Arms 180's and won't shoot ammo that misfires in his $15,000 full auto rimfires) to buy pallets often allowing them to have an edge on their competition. The Aguila and Blazer are almost regular deals and with word out need rimfire cases have guys at gun shops always handing me a zip lock bag or two of cases now. Wish I had started collecting cases a decade ago.

    All my rimfire goes in a screen dip bucket then in five gallon bucket of Berryman Chem-Dip Professional Parts Cleaner. It's $100 bucket and is "The fastest acting immersion cleaner for all metal parts including alloys. Non-corrosive to metal and requires no agitation. A chemical seal retards evaporation and aids in emulsification. Removes carbon, varnish, paint, sludge, and grease fast. Chemical CompoundDichloromethane; Xylene (mixed isomers); Cresol (mixed m- & p- isomers)". It's good stuff for cleaning anything metal.
    Well back in the day as far as bulk pack ammo went the rem golden bullets cartons at Kmart or Bargain city were all that was avail in bulk really. And shooting indoors as a Jr shooter the ammo all came from DCM and we bought it for $.80 per 50 round box. For years it was the rem target ammo, then it went to a "white box". All of them had a few misfires. really all a misfire creates is a dry fire, which is a training tool really .

    The Eley priming system is said to virtually eliminate unprimed sections of the case rim....but most domestic ammo is still using the muck older "spin the slurry into the rim" process. The Eley system may use a punch to displace the priming slurry into the rim recess ??

    But if I set aside every brick of 22 ammo that had any misfires I would not have any 22 ammo ....going clear back to the middle 1970's.

    Bill
    Both ends WHAT a player

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    GONRA's not sure about wot's goin' on here in this thread -
    but believes the traditional "drop primer mix paste into rotating case spinning in a chuck"
    would be FAR more reliable than TODAY'S (MUCH faster production!)
    "capturing case in a SATIONARY chuck" and spinning a tungsten carbide grooved rod to
    (hopefully) fling rotating primer mix paste into the rim.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check