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Thread: part # 1 paper patching the ML

  1. #81
    Boolit Master
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    Just how much can you size down a bullet after PP with out tearing the paper?

    Fly

  2. #82
    Boolit Master


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    How much smaller than bore size can your bullets be to start with?

    I patched some .533 Lee minies this afternoon (two wraps of damp typing paper followed by a few minutes in the toaster oven to dry) and they were way too tight. I managed to get them loaded and shot, but they were simply too tight. It piqued my curiosity, though.

    Can I patch up a .452 bullet to work in a .50? I realize that it wouldn't be legal in every state, but here in TN it would be legal, and I'd mainly be doing it for fun, at least until I learned the ropes well.

  3. #83
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
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    Well, the thickest paper I have that is practical to patch with is 25# laser printer paper. It adds .015" with two wraps around (a normal parallelogram patch) so that would be my minimum diameter for the boolit. Trying to make a 45 work in a 50 likely won't work because the rifling isn't deep enough to slice the patch and the core would tip inside the bore at the shot. That's where those modern plastic sabots come in.

    My usual patching paper adds .007" with two wraps, so I normally use a boolit that is .008" under bore size. They load easily and shoot exceptionally well.

    -Nobade

  4. #84
    Boolit Master


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    I did some crude measuring and it seems that two wraps of printer paper added right at .02" for me. I'm going to try and find some thinner paper, but this has definitely captured my interest.

  5. #85
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C. Latch View Post
    I did some crude measuring and it seems that two wraps of printer paper added right at .02" for me. I'm going to try and find some thinner paper, but this has definitely captured my interest.
    Make sure you wrap it wet and let it dry, to get a precise measurement.

    -Nobade

  6. #86
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    idahoron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fly View Post
    Just how much can you size down a bullet after PP with out tearing the paper?

    Fly
    That depends a lot on how soft the lead is.

  7. #87
    Boolit Master newton's Avatar
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    Well, I am gonna be shooting my first round tomorrow. I am going to start with the LRH because I need to have a gun ready to go next week and don't want to be frustrated with trying to get the 1:48 to work. But soon as I have the LRH set, I'll work on the Greyhawk.

    Question though. I guess I need to snip the tail off the boolit, but then wondered if putting a small dab of glue on the bottom of the boolit to attach a wad to would be a bad idea? It would make it easier to keep the wad and boolit together for hunting in the field I feel. The PP seems to slip off fairly easy, but would a wad somewhat attached to the back cause an imbalance when it left the barrel? I guess I will try it if no one else has yet, but if someone has and it does not work please let me know so I don't waste time.

  8. #88
    Boolit Master newton's Avatar
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    Oh, one more thing. I was lazy and did not get the onion skin paper offline. So I am hoping that it will not be too big of a kink in the plan. I was wondering if the 100% rag(cotton) vellum from Hobby Lobby or other places would work good?

  9. #89
    Boolit Mold
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    I am trying to size a pure lead 50 cal pistol bullet to .492". My small RCBS press doesn't have enough leverage. My neighbor has a Rock Chucker press, but thinks that "swaging" a bullet this much will somehow damage his press. Is that possible?

  10. #90
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
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    If that is hard to do, the geometry of your sizing die isn't right. It shouldn't take more than a gentle push on the lever to accomplish it. Make sure the entry to the die is a gentle taper without any steps, it's bigger than the boolit to start, and has a nice high polish. Of course lube the boolits with something. I like the RCBS case lube pad and their water soluble lube, you can wash it off afterward.

    -Nobade

  11. #91
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danyboy View Post
    Downsizing .008" is too much. Can't you try a smaller bullet then paper patch it up to .492 " ?
    Who says? I regularly take .458" bullets to .442" in one pass with no difficulty. Your sizer just needs to be made correctly and use the right lube.

    -Nobade

  12. #92
    Boolit Master
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    I Guess I was wrong cause I coule never size down a bullet by that much. My sizing dies must not be proper for it or I must be doing something wrong.
    Last edited by danyboy; 11-20-2014 at 07:25 AM.

  13. #93
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by danyboy View Post
    Downsizing .008" is too much. Can't you try a smaller bullet then paper patch it up to .492 " ?
    News to me.....I size Lee .312-155 down to .301 for smokeless PP loads, literally by the hundreds. They shoot darned good too......
    An old Cherokee was teaching his grandson about life. "Inside me two wolves fight," he told the boy.
    "One is evil - he is anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity, resentment, lies, false pride, and ego. The other is good - he is joy, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, generosity, truth and faith. The same fight is inside you - and every other person, too."
    The grandson thought for a minute and asked,"Which wolf will win?"
    The old Cherokee replied, "The one you feed."

  14. #94
    Boolit Master
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    Sorry, I was wrong, could Never do it. Doing something wrong.

  15. #95
    Boolit Man
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    Newton Thanks for the PP templant measurement's wondering if i click on them to enlarge are they correct size to trace ?

  16. #96
    Boolit Master newton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crossxsticks View Post
    Newton Thanks for the PP templant measurement's wondering if i click on them to enlarge are they correct size to trace ?
    Sorry, just saw this.

    Every printer puts them out different. So I would not count on it, but worth a shot.

  17. #97
    Boolit Mold
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    I've been wanting to try this for a while, and decided to make a project of it this year. My intent was to duplicate the equipment that others have used with success. Now I find that Green Mountain no longer makes fast-twist barrels, so it looks like I will have to custom order one. The question is, what bore/groove dimensions will work best? I've read that a shallower dimension works best, like .50/.508, yet the GM barrels were deeper at .512.

    Thoughts?

    Thanks,
    W

  18. #98
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    My GM's measure .508 My Knight rifles also measure the same. But those bullets patched and sized work in the TC white mt carbine, the lyman great plains hunter and the knight. They are tight going down and shoot very well in all of them. Here is a video I made on wrapping bullets.

    https://youtu.be/RmARVEFJbr0

  19. #99
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    Thanks Ron, I enjoyed the video.

    Russ
    When it comes to Muzzle Loaders, Black Powder Matters.

  20. #100
    Boolit Mold
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    Ah, that's great! The (few) references I found to the GM barrels listed a groove depth of .005-.006, which would equate to .510-.512 across the grooves. If they actually measure .508, then everything makes more sense. It means that the information I've read here and on other boards is very consistent. I will proceed with .50-.508.

    Thanks Ron, and also to Johnson1942 who responded privately. Great video too!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check