Milk Jug 300 Yard 6.5 Swede

[StarMetal]

Manley asked in another 6.5 thread what was going on. Well I can't answer that, but testing has been going on all along with me. I recently got a new powder. I've been testing the 6.5 Swede, but I've switched over to the 6.5x54MS. I'm on the verge of a load for the Swede, but I hit it with the MS today. I was using BABore's re-cut of the Kurtz, and although I shouldn't give him praise on this bullet because he's been yanking my chain about my cast bullets (just kidding Bruce just kidding ) but I got some good groups with it. Say to the tune of a 1/2 inch group at high velocity for the twist. My 6.5x54MS has nearly identical twist of the Swede. It's dead on 1-8 and we know the Swede is 1-7.8. Velocity was in the mid 2300's. This rifle shoots without fouling the bore or leading what so ever. It's a stainless Lothar Walther on a Savage 110 with a synthetic stock wearing a 3x9 Tasco World Class. This one will also shoot with either factory Norma brass or reformed 06 Military. I was using both today to confirm that. Also today the rifle was water cooled. Yup...it's blistering hot with high humidity here in TN for quite some time now and let me tell you five shots heat that barrel up very hot. So I cool it gradually with cool water.

So I'm a happy camper because I have lots of the powder and it's cheap and it works great. I'll turn back to the Swede now.

[82nd airborne]

[QUOTE=StarMetal;757013]Well I had to look to make sure I posted that and I did, but will repeat it for you.

a one miliradian holdover is 10.8 inches at 300 yards. a couple more than 2-3" but not bad for lead.

[No_1]

Great post. Good info in the 867. If I may ask, where did you get it from? You indicated there was a sharper "crack" upon firing. Did you notice a difference in recoil? I had the same thing happen while using different powder for a 8x57. Using surplus AA2200 I noticed the recoil was more of a sharp fast push vs. the slow hard push of the previous load (forget what powder at the moment). Anyway, love to see good things happening. Keep it coming.

Robert

OldJoe was out again finding yet more loads for you fellows. Here's what I shot today. I shot the BaBore's Kurt and BaBore's 268459 both over two powders...one is new. The old one is 860 surplus. The new powder for me is the new 867 surplus. The Kurtz went into any inch group with both powders, same location on target too. The 860 with the 268 went into 3/4 inch and the 867 into 1 inch. I shot both 268's in heavy rain. Little description on the loads. The big difference this time, besides the new 867, was CCI Large Rifle Magnum primers. It made a difference. More on the 867. I loaded the 860 to 44 grains and with the shot buffer and mag primer. Well without changing the powder measure (Belding & Mull) I used the same setting to drop the 867 charges. Well the volumes were the same, but the 867 weighed a grain less. Now the 867 had more of a crack upon firing and it's velocity was higher. So, so far, I'm determining that the 867 is faster then the 860. Boy I'm glad I bought 8 pounds of it. The 867 burned CLEAN...no left over granules or carbon. The velocity of the 140 some grain BaBore 268 was in the mid 2400's. I didn't chronograph the Kurtz. I will do that later.

So I feel I have a few more decent loads that are great because of the cheap surplus powders.

You fellows wanting to do this now have at least a half dozen or more loads that worked for me to start testing your rifles on. You don't have to shoot bug groups...around an inch is good.

[82nd airborne]

[

a one miliradian holdover is 10.8 inches at 300 yards. a couple more than 2-3" but not bad for lead.[/QUOTE]

by the way, not trying to rub you the wrong way, just throwing a technicallity out there.

[StarMetal]

Great post. Good info in the 867. If I may ask, where did you get it from? You indicated there was a sharper "crack" upon firing. Did you notice a difference in recoil? I had the same thing happen while using different powder for a 8x57. Using surplus AA2200 I noticed the recoil was more of a sharp fast push vs. the slow hard push of the previous load (forget what powder at the moment). Anyway, love to see good things happening. Keep it coming.

Robert

My load before for my 6.5x54MS was with 4895. Now that I have a good shooting load for it with the surplus I switched over the scope setting for the new load. Lots of powder and cheaper then 4895 and more so it's not as much pressure and takes less buffer. It's only 5 more grains of powder.

I'm thinking about switching the target Tasco off the Swede over the Mannlicher now, the Mannlicher shoots much better or should I say it's easier to get accurate loads out of it.

I wish I had that Mannlicher when Dan from Mountain Molds was on the forum and had that contest for a free mold. I do believe I would have won it. Another thing about the Mannlicher is it's lighter and shorter then the Swede.

[StarMetal]

[

a one miliradian holdover is 10.8 inches at 300 yards. a couple more than 2-3" but not bad for lead.

by the way, not trying to rub you the wrong way, just throwing a technicallity out there.[/QUOTE]


No problem, I don't see any rubbing. When I get a chance I'll reshoot that at both 100 and 300 and get right down to the fraction of an inch to get a more detailed description.

[82nd airborne]

it could be a variance of the optics to. a mil is 3.6 in at 100yrds. most scopes are set up to where the mil dots are acctually 1 mil on 10 power or the highst power if it is below 10x. 1 or 2 x can make a huge difference when judging mils. they are an ingenious handy little invention though, the only affordable battery free range finder! Id be interested in hearing more about youre loading process you mentioned as well, i load for a sweede but never shoot it very far. it is still interesting though. best of luck,
aaron

[StarMetal]

it could be a variance of the optics to. a mil is 3.6 in at 100yrds. most scopes are set up to where the mil dots are acctually 1 mil on 10 power or the highst power if it is below 10x. 1 or 2 x can make a huge difference when judging mils. they are an ingenious handy little invention though, the only affordable battery free range finder! Id be interested in hearing more about youre loading process you mentioned as well, i load for a sweede but never shoot it very far. it is still interesting though. best of luck,
aaron

I have a mildot Burris on my 6.5 Grendel. The Swede has a target Tasco and reading the books on both them the number of inches between dots is different on the Tasco to the Burris.

[scrapcan]

Yep the subtends for a scope are almost always different among the manufacturers. Best is to get the specs on each scope from the manufacturer. It makes a difference on which type of mildot reticle they are using also as there are variations on the theme.

A good intro is the following website. lots of stuff to read.
http://www.mil-dot.com/

[82nd airborne]

Yep the subtends for a scope are almost always different among the manufacturers. Best is to get the specs on each scope from the manufacturer. It makes a difference on which type of mildot reticle they are using also as there are variations on the theme.

A good intro is the following website. lots of stuff to read.
http://www.mil-dot.com/

+1 thats what i do, i practice quite often on ranging and doping with the mildot system. a straight 10x leoupold is king out of the various ones ive used. their mils are exactly 3.6moa, as they should be. i may just start a thread on utilization of the mildot system so i dont hijack starmetal's thread.

[StarMetal]

+1 thats what i do, i practice quite often on ranging and doping with the mildot system. a straight 10x leoupold is king out of the various ones ive used. their mils are exactly 3.6moa, as they should be. i may just start a thread on utilization of the mildot system so i dont hijack starmetal's thread.

No that fine, you can continue with it here. I was surprised at the difference in the mil dot between my Burris and the Tasco.

I believe what I failed to convey to some was that even though I was using the dot for that scope and it made it sound like I was only aiming a few inches higher to hit the jug, it was in actuality much higher.

[Hang Fire]

Not trying to hijack the thread, but how deep below the neck have some of you seated the Lee Cruise Missile? For a dummy round to work in my Model 38 Swede, case mouth is right at second band with bullet base below shoulder.

I have read pros and cons on deep seating bullets, but want to hear from you guys.

[scrapcan]

Hangfire,

I think a new thread would be interesting. One such addition would be a link to the article on derivation of the range estimation equations. It covers both MIL(radians) and MOA. it can be found at the above link.

I will watch for a new thread.

[StarMetal]

Hangfire,

Keep it in this thread. Lots are watching it.

To answer you CM question mind and 45 2.1's seat the check at the base of the neck. That's the way the original design was made from many chamber casts.

If you have the newer Lee mold they are casting much too fat thus require deeper seating. If you are going to use buffer it hurt the bullet to be seated deeper as the buffer will protect it.

[82nd airborne]

ill do a little write up on monday when i get home, on the use and math behind the mildot, along with common figures and rangeing formulas if it is something you guys would be interested in. im an expert by no means, most of what i know about the system was in sniper school and from field usage afterwards, followed by a little research. if its something a few of you would be interested in ill write it up, however, theres a good chance alot of you know more about it than myself.

[robertbank]

How about we keep this thread on topic and move a discussion on scopes to another thread. I think they may be a great deal of interest in the use of the mil dot. I for one have little experence with a scope so equipped and would not mind a tutorial on the subkect/

Much obloged.

Take Care

Bob

[82nd airborne]

sure thing, i think your'e right, as it really has nothing to do with this thread. and if someone searches for it it will be easier to find. ill post my knowledge on the topic tomorrow.

[StarMetal]

Well I loaded up most my 6.5x54 MS brass with the 867 load discuss previously. I'll not turn back to fine tuning the 867 load for the 6.5x54 Swede. It's shooting fairly well with the initial load, but I want that 1/2 min of angle or less.

[StarMetal]

I want to point out to those of you that may be trying the loading technique that as you increase the powder charge, thus the velocity, that as you approach that unforeseen sweet spot the group may grow in size. This may be interpreted by some as the accuracy getting worse because of the higher rpm. This isn't so in all instances. In many instances it is point where the load isn't balance and often disappears as the load is brought up in small increments such as 1/2 grain at a time. That's exactly what happen with my first successful 4350 load and it's exactly what happen on the most recent 6.5 Mannlicher load. So don't give up when you see that happen until you have proven it out.

[StarMetal]

Another thing has come to my attention through emails and pm's. If you start changing the alloys, changing lubes and amount of lubes from the instructions detailed in this thread...in other words throwing in a multitude of variables....you are prone for failure...that I can guarantee you. The powders were described (and I've added more to the list) the brass was describes, the bullets were described, and the acceptable lubes have been described, along with the one and only buffer. This is like learning to ride a bicycle. You fall down, you wreck, you get scrapes, cuts, and bruises...but once you learn how to ride that bicycle you never forget. Same as with the technique. Once you get it you got a grasp on mastering it. There are things about it that are difficult to put into words. One is there is a certain sound to the shot that tells you that you're close or that you got it. Certain feel to the vibration in the rifle at the shot when you got it.

Before I did this I was probably one of the largest consumers of Dacron on the forum. Now my Dacron sets in a corner of the shop gathering dust.

Follow the technique. If you're puzzled by any thing ask questions.


As said in the first paragraph if you do those things you should stop wasting your time and components. Remember we have done this.