Milk Jug 300 Yard 6.5 Swede

[243winxb]

Larry Gibson
Quote:
Originally Posted by swheeler View Post
"IMR 4895 start- 23gr. Max is 31gr @2105fps 18" bbl .No filler needed." by 243wxbr
Try that load in Swede and report back how it groups, get a big target.
swheeler is quite correct; going well past the RPM threshold will eat that load's accuracy alive, been there, done that, several times and so have a great many others.

Larry Gibson

Larry Gibson[/QUOTE] But in your article you say this about the 266455.

My experience with numerous of them has narrowed my choice down to 266455 which is a Lyman Lovern design with no bore riding nose. That 266455 design fits the case neck and throat of all 4 of my 6.5 Swedes perfectly and with no bore riding nose to contend with it has proven to be the most accurate design for the 6.5 Swede up through 2000 fps. Cast of most alloys it runs from 125 -130 gr in weight with GC and lube. It has provided me with the best accuracy across a broad spectrum of velocity in the fast twist Swede. Many find good accuracy with the other designs but most often it is in or below the RPM threshold. The Lyman Lovern design gives the best accuracy at higher velocities from the 6.5 Swede and also the same basic design gives the best accuracy in other calibers as well.

http://www.castpics.net/

[243winxb]

What fps is the RPM threshold at for the 266455 with a 7.5 twist bbl when using correct brass prep and powder. Never mind, i know.

I was not able to consistently duplicate any consistently accuracy load above 2000 fps.

I am glad you did all that work/testing for us, it sure will help new shooter. Thank you Larry Gibson. P.S. Now if we just knew the secret filler and how much to use??

[Larry Gibson]

Larry Gibson

But in your article you say this about the 266455. http://www.castpics.net/[/QUOTE]

Note in the article I said "it has proven to be the most accurate design for the 6.5 Swede up through 2000 fps". Take it up to 2100 fps, especially without a filler of any sort, as is suggested by swheeler, and accuracy gets bad very quick as indicated. At 2000 fps that bullet out of the 6.5 Swede is already being pushed above the RPM threshold. Most find best accuracy down within the RPM threshold in the 1500-1700 fps range as I stated. Does that answer the question/ or am I missing something?

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

What fps is the RPM threshold at for the 266455 with a 7.5 twist bbl when using correct brass prep and powder. Never mind, i know. I am glad you did all that work/testing for us, it sure will help new shooter. Thank you Larry Gibson. P.S. Now if we just knew the secret filler and how much to use??

The twist in the 6.5 Swede is actually 7.9" and the RPM threshold is around 16-1700 fps depending on numerous things. I was able, in the previous tests you thanked me for (you're welcome) to push the RPM threshold (remember it is not a fixed "barrier" as some want to think) to 2000 fps. In my previous tests I was not able to get above that regardless of the powder used with any consistent accuracy. Most everyone else hasn't been able to either which brings us to this discusion withthose very few who claim to be able to with medium/slow powders and certain types of fillers.

As I stated to 45 2.1 I have a series of test loads ready to test. These are with the same type of bullet, same alloy, same fit, same lube, what is believed to be the same filler, same two previously mentioned successful powders and the same loading technique. The rifle used is an accurate rifle with a very good and accurate 6.5 Swede milsurp barrel. I not only will test for velocity and accuracy but also will be measuring the MAP psi and the time/pressure curve along with other things. I am waiting for the weather to clear to conduct the test.

If I am successful and verify the accuracy/velocity claims I will give a complete and concise report here, including the specific filler used. If I am not successfull I will try a few more powders and one other filler of the same type. At anyrate, sucessful or not I will give a concise report of my tests here.

Larry Gibson

[StarMetal]

The twist in the 6.5 Swede is actually 7.9" and the RPM threshold is around 16-1700 fps depending on numerous things. I was able, in the previous tests you thanked me for (you're welcome) to push the RPM threshold (remember it is not a fixed "barrier" as some want to think) to 2000 fps. In my previous tests I was not able to get above that regardless of the powder used with any consistent accuracy. Most everyone else hasn't been able to either which brings us to this discusion withthose very few who claim to be able to with medium/slow powders and certain types of fillers.

As I stated to 45 2.1 I have a series of test loads ready to test. These are with the same type of bullet, same alloy, same fit, same lube, what is believed to be the same filler, same two previously mentioned successful powders and the same loading technique. The rifle used is an accurate rifle with a very good and accurate 6.5 Swede milsurp barrel. I not only will test for velocity and accuracy but also will be measuring the MAP psi and the time/pressure curve along with other things. I am waiting for the weather to clear to conduct the test.

If I am successful and verify the accuracy/velocity claims I will give a complete and concise report here, including the specific filler used. If I am not successfull I will try a few more powders and one other filler of the same type. At anyrate, sucessful or not I will give a concise report of my tests here.

Larry Gibson

Wonder why Lyman, in their cast manual, state the twist of the Swede at 7.5 along with the 6.5MS too? Where'd they get that from?

Joe

[Larry Gibson]

Wonder why Lyman, in their cast manual, state the twist of the Swede at 7.5 along with the 6.5MS too? Where'd they get that from?

Joe

I have no idea where that comes fro. I accepted it as gospel for years then Dutchman corrected me a few years back. I went and actually measured them (all 4 of my 6.5 Swede barrels) and damned if he wasn't correct! My guess is some "authority" made a mistake or a guess at the conversion from metric to inches and everyone went with that. I've no idea where the 7.5" twist got started from but I doubt we'll see it changed, just thought I'd throw it out in that last post to explain where the RPM threshold usually is for the Swede.

Larry Gibson

[StarMetal]

I have no idea where that comes fro. I accepted it as gospel for years then Dutchman corrected me a few years back. I went and actually measured them (all 4 of my 6.5 Swede barrels) and damned if he wasn't correct! My guess is some "authority" made a mistake or a guess at the conversion from metric to inches and everyone went with that. I've no idea where the 7.5" twist got started from but I doubt we'll see it changed, just thought I'd throw it out in that last post to explain where the RPM threshold usually is for the Swede.

Larry Gibson

That puts my 6.5x54MS very close to a Swede in twist then. My MS is 1in8.

Joe

[Larry Gibson]

That puts my 6.5x54MS very close to a Swede in twist then. My MS is 1in8.

Joe

That would appear so.

Larry Gibson

[robertbank]

Larry did you happen to mesure the twist rate in centimeters per meter? Not sure if it would mean much to me or anyone else in N.A. I grew up using the English measurement system and while I now think temperature in C. and snow in milimeters everything else is in ounces and feet.

Take Care

Bob

[StarMetal]

Larry did you happen to mesure the twist rate in centimeters per meter? Not sure if it would mean much to me or anyone else in N.A. I grew up using the English measurement system and while I now think temperature in C. and snow in milimeters everything else is in ounces and feet.

Take Care

Bob

Bob,

Not sure what you mean but one turn in 7.9 inches would be one turn in 20.066 centimeters, or one turn in .20066 meters, or one turn in 200.66 millimeters.

Joe

[geargnasher]

Larry did you happen to mesure the twist rate in centimeters per meter? Not sure if it would mean much to me or anyone else in N.A. I grew up using the English measurement system and while I now think temperature in C. and snow in milimeters everything else is in ounces and feet.

Take Care

Bob

Ok, now I'M confused. The ratios in twist rate refer to one revolution per "X" distance (in whatever unit designated).

Gear

[Larry Gibson]

Larry did you happen to mesure the twist rate in centimeters per meter? Not sure if it would mean much to me or anyone else in N.A. I grew up using the English measurement system and while I now think temperature in C. and snow in milimeters everything else is in ounces and feet.

Take Care

Bob

Sorry Bob, I'm an inches sort of guy. Besides, the metric system is a communist conspiracy to corrupt the moral fiber of America's youth. We haven't won a war since we started thinking in meters and kilometers. Look at what we did in WWII using inches, feet and yards. We saved the free world.....

Larry Gibson

For S&Gs I just went out and remeasured the twist in the Swede barrel in the Mex action again, 3 times....yup it's 7.9".

[Russel Nash]

You guys sure do go through a lot of trouble to feed a 6.5mm Mauser.

Why not just buy the right brass from the get-go and use (gasp!) j-word bullets?

[StarMetal]

You guys sure do go through a lot of trouble to feed a 6.5mm Mauser.

Why not just buy the right brass from the get-go and use (gasp!) j-word bullets?

Rus,

There is no good commercial brass that has a thick enough neck. It's even hard finding commercial brass that's fat enough in the web area.

I did a test with my bug hole grouping 06 brass in my Swede and that test was to take that load and assemble it in commercial Swede brass. I did the same thing to the 6.5x54MS. God only knows I don't want to do all that work to prepare 06 brass, especially in the 6.5x54MS because I have to swage the web area down too in a special die I made. Results of the tests were accuracy went bye bye. Did I try tailoring the loads? Oh you betcha. To give you an idea of that I make my 6.5 gas checks from aluminum flashing. This past summer I went through a 12"x10' sheet of the stuff trying to get my commercial brass to shoot.

That why all the trouble to make the Swede shoot. This is shoot HV, not the lower range loads.

Joe

[Russel Nash]

So what you're saying then is you can't take commercially available 6.5 brass and load it with a copper jacketed bullet and make it zip out any faster than your lead pro-jo's.....because..... why again?

A case head will separate??

[Marlin Hunter]

So this whole thread has been about someone's super secret squirrel use of filler in a rifle case to boost velocity?



Would somebody please send me a PM with the secret handshake or decoder ring?

I thought it was a about boolit obturation?

[StarMetal]

So what you're saying then is you can't take commercially available 6.5 brass and load it with a copper jacketed bullet and make it zip out any faster than your lead pro-jo's.....because..... why again?

A case head will separate??

Rus,

No, not saying that at all. Talking strictly cast here. They shoot good with jacketed and commercial Swede brass. No they aren't prone to head separation. The are very well made rifles with some weird dimensions here and there. They have a fat neck portion to the chamber and they have pretty deep rifling to name a few.

Joe

[robertbank]

Sorry Bob, I'm an inches sort of guy. Besides, the metric system is a communist conspiracy to corrupt the moral fiber of America's youth. We haven't won a war since we started thinking in meters and kilometers. Look at what we did in WWII using inches, feet and yards. We saved the free world.....

Larry Gibson

For S&Gs I just went out and remeasured the twist in the Swede barrel in the Mex action again, 3 times....yup it's 7.9".

Well you had a little help from your friends on the WW11 thing.

I just asked to see if anyone knew how the Europeans measure their rate of twist. I suspect it is in MM per meter but I don't know. The Swede most certainly was mesaured in metric that is why I asked. Not sure it matters to much but I would doubt the conversion would work out to the nearest tenth of an inch. Seldom does. Only matter I fgues if you are being really finicky.

Take Care

Bob

[Larry Gibson]

Bob

Don't get your dander up please, that was all in fun. Half of my relation are Canadians. Besides if memory serves me right Canada was still into inches and yards during WWII(?). I also have trained and served with the PPLI and your airborne outfit before it was stood down, all good men and soldiers.

Larry Gibson

[robertbank]

Bob

Don't get your dander up please, that was all in fun. Half of my relation are Canadians. Besides if memory serves me right Canada was still into inches and yards during WWII(?). I also have trained and served with the PPLI and your airborne outfit before it was stood down, all good men and soldiers.

Larry Gibson

LOL, All in fun. The PPCLI ar still active and are over in Afghanistan right now as you likely know. After the Liberals stood down the Airbourne the Conservatives have resurrected the outfit in all but name. They formed a Special Forces regiment which is not to be confused with the JT-F2 folks who operate in their own world.

I'll be interested to see how your tests turn out. I have used filler in my old .303 Brit with mixed results. I finally scoped my #4 to take my old eyes out of the accuracy equation. Now if I could do something about the rest of the body....

Take Care

Bob