I have been getting pretty good results with un-lubricated paper patched bullets. Other than water proofing is there anything to be gained with some type of lubricant?
I have been getting pretty good results with un-lubricated paper patched bullets. Other than water proofing is there anything to be gained with some type of lubricant?
The only reasons I can see for lubing a PP bullet is when sizing the patched bullet or to help keep the patch from tearing when loading the bullet into the case.
Most people use Johnsons Paste Wax (JPW) for this. A little dab will do ya! Turtle wax is only good for subsonic rounds.
I only use wax for final sizeing, and weather proofing.
I do not use wax heavily.
Someone suggested that without lube, paper is somewhat abrasive. Maybe. Maybe the lube reduces friction. The only way to find out would be for someone with a chrono to do some tests. It has already been demonstrated that a patched boolit has less drag in the bore than grease grooved cast.
I like the idea of leaving a lube coating in the bore for corrosion protection.
Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)
''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''
I use lube to reduce bore friction and to water proof my patches.
45 AUTO! Because having to shoot someone twice is just silly!
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=34782
Lube is good.
I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.
Just a thought. Cleaning a bore is done with an oiled patch right? Would the same principle apply to paper patches?
Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)
''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''
Lately I've been giving my patched boolits a light spray with Hornady Quick Lube, the aerosol case sizing lubricant. It's dry to the touch in a fairly short time, so won't be prone to picking up dirt etc., but I really have no clue whether or not it has any other benefit to the shooting qualities. I too had read that PP boolits tend to be more abrasive to the bore than GG, so that's why I started lubing mine.....I used to rub a smear of SPG onto them before switching to the Quick Lube.
I tried all that.
I have found, when a spray is used, it penetrates the patch and loosens the paper bond. The patch material got weaker.
I found, even Auto Wax that I use, if I use too much, does the same thing.
A dab will do ya.
Can't say what lubrication on paper patches is worth, but I am balking at the notion of using oil to clean.
I have cleaned machine guns with diesel fuel...which is an oil...but it was used to 'dissolve' the built-up residue. That makes it a 'solvent'.
In all of my other cleaning, I also use solvent (Hoppes, etc.) to clean. With black powder, the solvent is primarily water.
Once the bore is clean, a dry patch is used to remove the solvent traces, and get a final reading on cleanliness.
The oiled patch is used to apply a 'preservative'...after the cleaning and drying is done.
Isn't that true for you, too...when you think about it?
CM
Last edited by montana_charlie; 12-25-2009 at 02:03 PM.
Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.
Down here, if we use oil on the firearms, we get rust.
Oil floats on water.
We clean, then use wax rather than oils.
Best thing I ever found out to do. No rust on the blueing yet.
I have found, when a spray is used, it penetrates the patch and loosens the paper bond. The patch material got weaker.
Hmm, I haven't noticed that, but generally I shoot the loads within a day or two of spraying the bullets. The paper I've been using is Mead Eraseable Typewrier Paper which seems to have a slightly tacky quality when wet & seems to hold on very well when dry. I'll have to spray some with the Quick Lube & let them sit for a while & see if I notice any degradation.
Exactly. I use Rapid-Tap when I have it. I didn't think of diesel oil - thanks for the tip. Penetrating oils would be as good.... diesel fuel...which is an oil...but it was used to 'dissolve' the built-up residue. That makes it a 'solvent' ...
Yes it is true. Which is why I like the Rapid-Tap so much. It penetrates, disolves and protects against rust, even though it does dry out in time.The oiled patch is used to apply a 'preservative'...after the cleaning and drying is done.
Isn't that true for you, too...when you think about it?
We do know that not lubing the patch prior to sizing will result in the core slipping in the patch.
Anyway, I'm all for lubing the patch.
Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)
''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''
Paper might be more abrasive than lead. I bet copper jacketed bullets are harder on a barrel than PP. EVERYTHING you put down the tube damages it to some extent. There is crushed glass in some primer compounds!I like the idea of a tiny bit of lube on any boolit/bullet going down the tube. Even my jacketed get a final tumbling and some paste wax to protect them if they are to be kept any length of time.
Jay
"The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen
"THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph."
Thomas Paine
Jay. are you sure modern priming mixtures contain crushed glass ?? I heard of some of the early early compounds using it, and terrible bore wear was the result.
Both ends WHAT a player
I do not lube my patches, so far accuracy shows no need for it, but I only shoot BP also.
KW
The Lunger
Copper on steel has a slightly higher coefficient of friction than does paper on steel. Slightly higher. Of course, this does not necessarily take into account any particular bleaching agents added to paper....like Kaolin (which is abrasive). But, on the "better safe than sorry" principle, I lube my patches. Lee Liquid Alox, cut about 50/ 50, with turpentine. Nothing special about the turpentine.....mineral spirits works just as well. The diluted LLA waterproofs the patch,yet only penetrates the first layer of paper....so it can't stick the paper to the bullet. The LLA also serves to lube the patch, when put through a die to final-size the wrapped bullet.
I've shot these both unlubed and lubed (as noted above)..... and found no difference. So, I'll stick with the lube - it works, or at least causes no harm, so I see no need to change it.
I only use wax to lubricate to size.
I have also done patches dry with excellent results.
Here's an experiment for those of you who use LLA on paper patch boolits:
-smear a little on your paper patch boolit before you size it down to final diameter
-notice the effort required to size it, and whether it goes through the die smoothly
-Compare this to sizing a dry patched boolit, and one lubed with case sizing wax.
I found that the LLA "lubricated" boolit was harder to size than plain dry paper, and much harder to size than one lubed with sizing wax. I think this is some indication of what it's doing in the bore. This leads me to believe that LLA is not a good lube for paper patching, if a lube is needed or wanted.
A little case sizing wax will give you all the waterproofing you might need in a normal situation. If you want more, try dipping the tip of the loaded round in hot wax, just up to the case mouth. This will leave most of the paper patch alone, and only coat the exposed part. (You can use the same method to waterproof matches.)
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