41 magnum vs 10 mm auto

[gofastman]

round for round, the .41 has a significant ballistic advantage, its fact.
that said the 10mm is sooooooo much better (opinion )

[Gibson]

You miss the entire point. I'm done talking to a brick wall.

Yeah. That's why I typed "but the .357. . ." My post was just a simple observation that popped into my head. But then again, I've typed that about three times now.

I thought of a couple of commercially sold (in the past) .357s that will safely and easily out run the 10mm with handloads. This site is kind of, sort of, maybe directed toward handloaders. Ergo, . . .

But you are correct, typing to STOP signs is dumb. Talking to them is more dumb

[rbuck351]

Since my last post of about a year ago I have aquired some 270gr home made jacketed bullets that I'm getting 1200fps from my BH 41mag. As I live, hunt and fish in Ak, I want a bullet that I think has a good chance of penetrating the frontal armor of a ticked off brown bear. I think this combo will work. I have little confidence in the 10mm at it's best. You HAVE to break bones to stop a brown bear charge. Stinging him with 20 rounds that fail to break bones will make him so mad he will kill you before he dies. A single round that gets through the skull hits the spine or breaks a front shoulder can save your butt. A multitude of bullets that don't break down the bear will get you hurt. IMO the 41Mag heavily loaded is minimal for big bear defence and bigger would be better if you can shoot it well. The 10mm should work well for black bear but a 600/800lb browie is a whole new can of worms. Fortunately, few of us will ever have to find out whether our chosen hand gun is enough as bear attacks are very rare. In an all out brown bear attack you will probably be lucky to draw and get off one shot let alone several and a reload will not be happening.

[pmer]

200 grain .41 boolit at 1400 FPS has a Taylor KO of 16

270 grain .41 boolit at 1200 FPS has a Taylor KO of 18

240 grain .429 boolit at 1400 is the 20 TKO

I bet that 270 .41 boolit would be a good stopper. They all are better than nuttin.

[10x]

From a practical point of view, what is the primary difference, if any, between the ballistic performance of a 41 Magnum and a 10mm revolver? Obviously the 10mm would have to use moon clips and would fire a slightly smaller diameter bullet but... Beyond that is there any significant difference between these two?

From a practical point of view if you are shooting targets it doesn't much matter to the paper, it will punch a hole.
From a hunting point of view a flat point bullet from either will preform the same on game and will take a deer if you 1) get close enough and 2) place your shot well.
From a self defense point of view a perp can not tell the difference between a .41 caliber hole and a 10mm caliber hole. Both calibers will cause long term grief and agony, if not very quick death to an attacker in a self defense situation if the bullet hits anything vital or a bone.

I would pick the gun I am most comfortable shooting. There is no magic to the 10 mm bullet , nor is there magic in a .41 caliber bullet. Both will do the same job - poke a hole where you want it poked - if you do your part.

[mpmarty]

Then again there is the personal preference thing. I own and shoot three 10mm pistols all from Tanfoglio and all steel. No polymer pistols for me thanks. The hot 200gr loads with AA-9 work fine and burn clean. Sixteen rounds on tap from the holster is a good thing too.

[Any Cal.]

Platform matters, as it can affect draw time and time to first/second shot. I personally think the ten has some points in its favor, but would skip right over anything less than a forty-four once you move into large frame revo territory. In a gun the size of a service pistol, you are never going to have incredible ballistics, so the ten doesn't lag too far behind.

[ironjaw]

have a mdl 57 8.3/8. shoot cast 220 grn . hard . it is a great gun, but the glock 20 is in my future.
anyone have sucess in sizing 410 down to.400 ?? have 4 moulds in .410, one is an old rnd nose colt and it is great @ 1100 fps. i even crimped the bottom and used g.c's. just to see.
hope this is not in wrong thread. new here

[jmort]

The 10mm is a good caliber but every 10mm thread seems to make the 10mm out to be more than it really is - it is slightly less gun than a .357. The .357 has more energy, better sectional density (180 grain .357 v 220 grain 10mm) and better penetration with a hard cast bullet. The .41 mag is in a different league, way more gun. As for the, "I've got so many more rounds to shoot at a bear," I would rather have one six foot long wound channel than 2 three foot long wound channels. How many rounds do you think you will get off if a bear charges you? If I'm in area where there are black bears then 10mm makes sense. If I'm in an area controlled by a MS 13 affiliate gang, then the 10mm makes sense. If I need something that will smoke some nasty beast, I would want more gun, something well north of 1,000 ft lbs.

[Sven]

Wow, this one's still going. . .

A critter -- two legged or four -- will probably not know the difference if it was shot with a .357, 10mm or .41 mag, if all three are using the same type of bullet, i.e. hollow point or hard cast.

It all boils down to whether you prefer to carry a revolver or semi-auto. I am starting to think I prefer the slimmer lines of a 1911 over a N frame S&W -- that's what my woods gun has been, a 629 Mountain Gun loaded with 210 gr Silvertips. That's why I bought a Delta Elite a while back. I'd suggest another comparison between a 200 gr 10mm at 1200 fps and the Silvertip load of 210 gr at 1250fps, but I don't want to be kicked off the board!

[jmort]

^ You should try something like this
.41 Magnum Ammo - 265 gr. L.W.N. 1,350 fps/M.E. 1,072 ft. lbs
I like the STs but their velocity is less than advertised.

[Sven]

^ You should try something like this
.41 Magnum Ammo - 265 gr. L.W.N. 1,350 fps/M.E. 1,072 ft. lbs
I like the STs but their velocity is less than advertised.

I have a .44, not a .41. I hunt with a 300 gr. LWN at 1350 fps, but it is certianly not an every day carry load.

[MikeS]

have a mdl 57 8.3/8. shoot cast 220 grn . hard . it is a great gun, but the glock 20 is in my future.
anyone have sucess in sizing 410 down to.400 ?? have 4 moulds in .410, one is an old rnd nose colt and it is great @ 1100 fps. i even crimped the bottom and used g.c's. just to see.
hope this is not in wrong thread. new here

I recently tried doing just that. I have a couple of .41 moulds and I just got a 400Corbon barrel for my 45. I had zero luck. Either I'm a lot weaker than I thought (a good possibility, getting old sucks) or my Lee press just doesn't have the mechanical advantage needed, but I tried sizing down from .411 to .401 using a Lee sizing die, and it just didn't happen. Maybe I need to fasten my press to the bench better, I have a Lee benchplate system, and rather than using thru bolts with nuts & washers I just used lag bolts from the top to mount the plate system. Normally I have no problem with this setup, but when trying to size the boolits it looked like the press was going to pull out of the bench! Maybe I could get a .406 sizing die, and do it in 2 passes?

[MikeS]

Not to upset any 41 fans, but can a 41mag be made in a smaller frame revolver than a 44mag? If not, then I personally don't see the need for the 41, but that's based on never having shot a 41mag, so I will say that my ideas are open to change if/when I do shoot one. Also, I don't currently own ANY magnum handguns, with my most powerful gun being a 45ACP.

[Elkins45]

Since it has been well (and correctly) decided that there's no advantage to 10mm over 41 mag in a revolver with perhaps the exception of faster reloads through moon clips, I will stipulate that and dive into the 10mm auto vs 41 mag revolver.

I wanted a bear gun--whether I NEEDED one is another story--- so I bought a S&W 329PD at considerable expense. That's a 44, so no question it's more powerful than a 41. Used, so it came without the advantage of a warranty. I loaded it with 300 grain FP loads as fast as the book allowed. Recoil was BRUTAL, but I expected that. What I didn't expect was the cylinder spinning and the internal lock engaging itself. Not really what you want when the bear is clawing your face off.

My new bear gun is a Glock 20SF loaded with the RCBS 200 FP in front of a max load of Blue Dot. I wanted to use AA#9 but I ran out of room in the case with the big bullet. I would rather have 16 functional rounds than six that might not work. The auto has proven itself vastly more reliable than the lightweight revolver.

[yondering]

I recently tried doing just that. I have a couple of .41 moulds and I just got a 400Corbon barrel for my 45. I had zero luck. Either I'm a lot weaker than I thought (a good possibility, getting old sucks) or my Lee press just doesn't have the mechanical advantage needed, but I tried sizing down from .411 to .401 using a Lee sizing die, and it just didn't happen. Maybe I need to fasten my press to the bench better, I have a Lee benchplate system, and rather than using thru bolts with nuts & washers I just used lag bolts from the top to mount the plate system. Normally I have no problem with this setup, but when trying to size the boolits it looked like the press was going to pull out of the bench! Maybe I could get a .406 sizing die, and do it in 2 passes?

Are you trying to size really hard bullets? If not, it shouldn't be that hard. It would probably help to polish the Lee sizing die; some of them are pretty rough inside and anything significantly oversized won't size down easily.

I do this too; another member here gave me a supply of 220gr 41 Magnum LFN bullets, that I size down to .401" and use in the 10mm. I'm just using a polished Lee sizing die in an old Lyman O-frame press; it doesn't take much more effort than just running 30-06 brass through a sizing die. These bullets are air cooled wheel weight.

[jmort]

"The auto has proven itself vastly more reliable than the lightweight auto."

Good thing those Glocks never Kaboom and an FTF will be "vastly" less of a problem in a semi-auto. Seriously though, where you are 700 to 750 ft lbs of energy should be enough.

[yondering]

The 10mm is a good caliber but ...- it is slightly less gun than a .357.

This is not at all true, unless you're either comparing watered down commercial 10mm loads to advertised .357 ballistics, or comparing a long barreled .357 to a 10mm service size pistol. If you compare full power 10mm out of a 4"-5" semi-auto pistol, to full power .357 from a similar size gun, the 10mm has a big advantage. Full power 10mm from a Glock 20 or good 1911 can do up to 900 ft-lb; try that with a similar sized .357.

[jmort]

"If you compare full power 10mm out of a 4"-5" semi-auto pistol, to full power .357 from a similar size gun, the 10mm has a big advantage."

No, sorry -
Since Buffalo Bore has proven to be accurate in their data I go by what they have:

10mm 220 gr. Hard Cast - FN (1200 fps/ME 703 ft. lbs.)
1. 1140 fps - Glock model 20 4.6 inch barrel
2. 1175 fps - Colt Delta Elite 5 inch barrel
3. 1201 fps - Para Ordinance 1911 with Nowlin 5 inch barrel

10mm 180 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (1,350fps/M.E. 728 ft. lbs.
1. 1311 fps - Glock model 20 4.6 inch barrel
2. 1337 fps - Colt Delta Elite 5 inch barrel
3. 1351 fps - Para Ordinance 1911 with Nowlin 5 inch barrel

Heavy 357 Magnum Ammo - 180 gr. Hard Cast LFN-GC (1,400fps/M.E. 783 ft. lbs.)
4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun
a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps
5 inch S&W model 27
a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast =1398 fps

Now I have never seen a factory 10mm gun get 900 ft lbs. With Buffalo Bore .357 more gun, more energy, better sectional density, better penetration with same length barrels and as you can see a shorter S&W MT. Gun with 4" barrel is more gun than the longer barrel 10mm.

[Any Cal.]

4" Mtn gun is similar size to 6" G20, barrel length is measured differently so can not be compared straight across. 20 also weighs1/2lb or so less. Then you have a choice of 6 rds of a smaller bullet in a short sight radius with slower sights in a heavier gun, or more rds with a larger meplat in a lighter, faster, platform.

The best comparison between the two calibers is a 4" SP101 vs G20, even though it would technically have a bit more barrel, nothing else takes gun size into account. Arguing for larger guns is silly, because once you go larger than that there are much more capable calibers.

A 40+ oz gun can house most any caliber, not many choices at 30 oz.