41 magnum vs 10 mm auto

[HammerMTB]

Since you do not empty a mag or cyl into an animal, total ft#s or what ever matter little. Yes, you can get a 6"bbl for the G20 then again, a 6" 41mag pushes them faster still. Go ahead, believe your 10mm is a death ray, but those of us that shoot both no the diff.
FWIW, no, you can not get to 1300fps w/ a 200gr in a 6"bbl w/o bendng something. Yet a 220gr @ 1300fps is quite easily done in the 41mag. Don't get me wrong, I like the 10mm, probably one of the first to reload for it, but it's NOT a 41mag, not even close when both are loaded to safe max pressures.

Since the array of possible threats may be from 1 to many, the # of rounds available is very pertinent. The speed with which the arm may be reloaded is also important.
I see you were not willing to name something that might be able to tell the difference between a .41 and a 10MM in terminal ballistics. No surprise to me.....

I see your skills at reading my post may need some honing as well. I said you could get NEAR 1300fps with a 200 gr boolit. Here's some ballistics to prove it.

No, it's not a .41 Mag. It doesn't need or want to be. It's significantly more than that as a defense round. Take a look around and see who carries each as a defense round.

[sqlbullet]

The local advice is to avoid bears if possible. Since bears will shy away from humans, the forest rangers suggest you wear small bells on your hiking gear that will jingle, giving the bear plenty of time to clear the area ahead of you. They also suggest you carry pepper spray as a deterrent if you do meet a bear.

Finally, be able to recognize bear scat. It smells like pepper and has little bells in it.

(sorry, couldn't resist bringing some levity back.)

[mike in co]

Since the array of possible threats may be from 1 to many, the # of rounds available is very pertinent. The speed with which the arm may be reloaded is also important.
I see you were not willing to name something that might be able to tell the difference between a .41 and a 10MM in terminal ballistics. No surprise to me.....

I see your skills at reading my post may need some honing as well. I said you could get NEAR 1300fps with a 200 gr boolit. Here's some ballistics to prove it.

No, it's not a .41 Mag. It doesn't need or want to be. It's significantly more than that as a defense round. Take a look around and see who carries each as a defense round.

but you guys are way off topic...he specified REVOLVER in each....

[mike in co]

The local advice is to avoid bears if possible. Since bears will shy away from humans, the forest rangers suggest you wear small bells on your hiking gear that will jingle, giving the bear plenty of time to clear the area ahead of you. They also suggest you carry pepper spray as a deterrent if you do meet a bear.

Finally, be able to recognize bear scat. It smells like pepper and has little bells in it.

(sorry, couldn't resist bringing some levity back.)

you are sick...lol

[yondering]

but you guys are way off topic...he specified REVOLVER in each....

I think that question's already been answered, pretty solidly. Same debate as whether to have a .357 or a 9mm in a revolver.

[fredj338]

Since the array of possible threats may be from 1 to many, the # of rounds available is very pertinent. The speed with which the arm may be reloaded is also important.
I see you were not willing to name something that might be able to tell the difference between a .41 and a 10MM in terminal ballistics. No surprise to me.....

I see your skills at reading my post may need some honing as well. I said you could get NEAR 1300fps with a 200 gr boolit. Here's some ballistics to prove it.

No, it's not a .41 Mag. It doesn't need or want to be. It's significantly more than that as a defense round. Take a look around and see who carries each as a defense round.

We are talking big, dangerous game, not a hoard of zombies. I can assure you that a 41mag loaded w/ heavy LFP penetrates further than a 10mm, been there & done that. If the 10mm makes you feel invincible, so be it. I know better. Service cartridges are just that & magnum rev. are certainly a step up if you can shoot them. Not recognizing that only tells me you don't shoot them or you would know. Nothing wrong w/ my reading skills, I just doubt the validity of your claim. Loading & shooting for both calibers I DO KNOW. Thanks or your insiteful input though. You can get close to 1300fps w/ 6"bbl & heavy, probably unsafe loads., sure, maybe in the right gun. Then yo ucan put up even more insane loads in a 41mag too, so what is the point exactly?

[ReloaderFred]

I have several 10mm pistols, one Model 610 revolver, and my duty gun for about 20 years of my career was a 6" Model 57, .41 Magnum revolver. I have a lot of experience with these two calibers and handguns. I also have three Marlin carbines in .41 Magnum.

The .41 Magnum is clearly more powerful than the 10mm. Both calibers tend to be very accurate, with the proper loads. My 610 revolver is much more accurate than either of my Colt Delta Elites, or several Witnesses in 10mm. It's just the nature of the beast. My Model 57 is also very accurate.

I live in bear country and have them in my yard at night. We can't put the trash out until just before the trash truck gets there. My wife and I have also had encounters with bears that had no fear of human beings, probably because some fool was feeding them. A bear without fear of humans is a dangerous bear, period.

I've carried both 10mm and .41 Magnum while walking the dogs in the woods behind our house. I've also seen a medium size black bear killed by a 9mm, with 147 gr. Black Talons in it. Two rounds were required to kill that bear, but the discussion concerning bears is off topic.....

The simple question from the OP was what is the difference? The difference is the .41 is more powerful than the 10mm.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[lwknight]

I can not see any logic in having a 10mm revolver. The good ammo is no more plentiful than 41 magnum. Plus you have to mess with moon clips.

[softpoint]

Interesting...If I had neither revolver, I''d pick a 41 every time. But, since I have .454, 44, etc. for heavy stuff, and I have a Kimber and a Glock in 10mm, I'd kinda' like to have a 10mm revolver for those days I don't want to pick up brass. Plus I already have a Dillon conversion set up for 10mm. Convenience would be the decisive factor here, rather than which one has the edge in power.

[missionary5155]

Good evening
I have been shooting 41 mags for over 25 years. The .41 will do anything a .44 (really .43)mag will do -5% so lets compare a 10mm to the real 41 mag... not the wimpy 210 loadings the factories churn out.
Start stuffing a 265 gr GC into a 41 mag with all the powder a Dan wesson can handle & there is NO... repeat NO 10 mike mike out there gonna come close.
And if we have to stick to 210 grainers... then fit 21.6 grains of 296 into a 10mm case and pull the trigger. That was my 1983 steel load in my DAN that won AAA class Revolver in ILL. Fired well over 1000 rounds of that in 4 months.. my dan is still as accurate as ever. What do you think a 10mm would look like.
And my Rugers (especially the Bisley) are not far behind on diet.
So please... come on fellers... the 10 mike mike is a great caliber... BUT NEVER compare apples to plums.

[HammerMTB]

We are talking big, dangerous game, not a hoard of zombies. I can assure you that a 41mag loaded w/ heavy LFP penetrates further than a 10mm, been there & done that. If the 10mm makes you feel invincible, so be it. I know better. Service cartridges are just that & magnum rev. are certainly a step up if you can shoot them. Not recognizing that only tells me you don't shoot them or you would know. Nothing wrong w/ my reading skills, I just doubt the validity of your claim. Loading & shooting for both calibers I DO KNOW. Thanks or your insiteful input though. You can get close to 1300fps w/ 6"bbl & heavy, probably unsafe loads., sure, maybe in the right gun. Then you can put up even more insane loads in a 41mag too, so what is the point exactly?

Your passion for overstatement makes it clear you'd like to win an argument with hyperbole and innuendo, not facts.
I don't recall bringing zombies into this- you did.
I don't recall bringing death rays into this- you did.
I don't don't recall pronouncing anything or anyone invincible- you brought that up.
There's plenty in there you are wrong about.
I do load for magnum revolver, and shoot them often.
Whether 10MM or .41 Mag penetrates further was never in question in my mind. Apparently you are fixated on penetration.
You still don't want to point to something that can tell the difference in power between the 2. We know why that is, now don't we?
Try your reading skills some more. The 1250+fps 200 grainers in the 6" bbl 10MM weren't unsafe. But since that takes away from your argument you don't want to touch that, eh?

Good point at the end, tho. What is your point, exactly? Each caliber has its strong points. If it had none, why would you own it?
I have a preference. I've made it clear. That's been enough for me- why do you carry on?
Hope to convince me to abandon a 10MM for a .41? Are you holding your breath?

[fredj338]

Your passion for overstatement makes it clear you'd like to win an argument with hyperbole and innuendo, not facts.
I don't recall bringing zombies into this- you did.
I don't recall bringing death rays into this- you did.
I don't don't recall pronouncing anything or anyone invincible- you brought that up.
There's plenty in there you are wrong about.
I do load for magnum revolver, and shoot them often.
Whether 10MM or .41 Mag penetrates further was never in question in my mind. Apparently you are fixated on penetration.
You still don't want to point to something that can tell the difference in power between the 2. We know why that is, now don't we?
Try your reading skills some more. The 1250+fps 200 grainers in the 6" bbl 10MM weren't unsafe. But since that takes away from your argument you don't want to touch that, eh?

Good point at the end, tho. What is your point, exactly? Each caliber has its strong points. If it had none, why would you own it?
I have a preference. I've made it clear. That's been enough for me- why do you carry on?
Hope to convince me to abandon a 10MM for a .41? Are you holding your breath?

Not at all. AS I said, but apparently your reading skills also need work, I own, load & shoot the 10mm. It' just not a 41mag. Saying it's close is like saying the 40 is close to the 10mm because it will get wiithin 150fps w/ same bullet wts. It's just your argument that one is equal to the other because it is close, is just weak.

.41 Mag wheel gun= 6 rounds and reload
10MM auto pistol, mags vary, but my Glock 20=15+1 up the pipe
Lotta firepower
The .41 has a slight ballistic advantage, as noted above. I doubt anything you'd shoot a slug into would be able to tell the difference....

You brought up the seniauto, only needed for multiple two legged vermin or zombie attacks. I also did answer about what targets could tell the diff. & that is because of the increased energy & penetration. The larger/tougher the target, the bigger/heavier the bullet. A 10mm would be fine for deer & hogs, maybe smaller black bear in close but game going over 500#, the heavy 41mag wins that one easily. All the other things you talk about, speed of reloading, number of rounds, etc. have nothing to do with the original question by the OP. As always, JMO.

[HammerMTB]

Not at all. AS I said, but apparently your reading skills also need work, I own, load & shoot the 10mm. It' just not a 41mag. Saying it's close is like saying the 40 is close to the 10mm because it will get within 150fps w/ same bullet wts. It's just your argument that one is equal to the other because it is close, is just weak.

You brought up the semiauto, only needed for multiple two legged vermin or zombie attacks. I also did answer about what targets could tell the diff. & that is because of the increased energy & penetration. The larger/tougher the target, the bigger/heavier the bullet. A 10mm would be fine for deer & hogs, maybe smaller black bear in close but game going over 500#, the heavy 41mag wins that one easily. All the other things you talk about, speed of reloading, number of rounds, etc. have nothing to do with the original question by the OP. As always, JMO.

I don't recall denying you have or fuss with a 10MM. Want to point out where I did and someone's reading skills are in error? The 10MM is a superior caliber in a semi-auto. That's not equal. Why would I bring a semi-auto into this? Because a 10MM in a wheelgun is ridiculous, that's why. I don't deny that it can and has been done, it's just one of those answers without a question.

I don't recall you pointing out which animals could tell the difference before the quote just above. Are you making yourself out a liar, or just a story-magnifier? Nice try on the hyperbole and innuendo, but lacking in any quantifiable facts.
If you read...
back to my first post, I said from the start that the .41 had a slight ballistic advantage. It's not that much, and I'm glad you agree. The .40 Short and Weak is behind the 10MM, but there's always going to be comparisons between the 2. And if you want to try out some hyperbole and innuendo, they are quite close together when comparing a 17HMR with a 460 Weatherby Mag.

I contend that a dead animal is dead, and won't be able to tell the difference in a 10MM or a .41 Mag. Either way is dead. Yep, right up to griz, polar bear, and moose.
Want to take on elephant or cape Buffalo with your .41? Have someone take a vid and post it in your absence, wouldja?
Who else thinks a 10MM will do the job on those griz, brownies, and moose?
Well, the Alaska State Troopers. They choose the 10MM, not the .41 Mag. Hmmmm
Who thinks it's enough for polar bear?
The Icelandic military that patrol Greenland for months on end. They come across polar bears. They choose the 10MM. They don't carry .41 Mags. Hmmmm

I only have one suggestion for ya:
If you think the hole you dug is deep enough, put the shovel down.
Cheers!

[sargenv]

Man, I leave the thread for a day or two and it gets down to zombies?

Tis true that the 41 is the higher powered handgun.. but I don't mess with any large revolver with anything smaller than a 6.5" tube.. the 235's I cranked to 1315 fps was out of a 7.5" tube. It's been years since I tried anything heavy in any of my 610's since I use them mainly for USPSA revolver division. Stuff that heavy is not needed. I played around with 220 gr plated stuff and was sorely disappointed with it's lack of accuracy. I have however cranked up 140's to nearly 1300 fps when I was pushing a light bullet to major power factor.. yeah I know about half that of what the 41 mag will do.. it was mostly to use up inexpensive bullets and make major pf.

I may one day think about cranking up the 10 mm, but for now I'm happy shooting 40 short & weak's at minor.. less wear and tear on the wrists..

I did load up 50 - 235's and 50 - 210 JHP's for the 41 magnum I own. I think I've fired about 20 of each to demonstrate the difference between it and the competition loads I use.. I really don't have a need for something with that much power at this point. I like both cartridges since they are kind of oddballs.. I won the 657 at the IRC a couple years ago.. it was my second revolver won in the years I've been shooting that match.. and no one seemed to want it.. so I grabbed it. Not bad for placing in the 60's out of about 200 shooters I've been shooting the 610-2 for over 10 years and with the S&W ammo, it is very nice to shoot.. hardly any recoil with my minor load.

[fredj338]

Want to take on elephant or cape Buffalo with your .41? Have someone take a vid and post it in your absence, wouldja?
Who else thinks a 10MM will do the job on those griz, brownies, and moose?
Well, the Alaska State Troopers. They choose the 10MM, not the .41 Mag. Hmmmm
Who thinks it's enough for polar bear?
The Icelandic military that patrol Greenland for months on end. They come across polar bears. They choose the 10MM. They don't carry .41 Mags. Hmmmm

I only have one suggestion for ya:
If you think the hole you dug is deep enough, put the shovel down.
Cheers!

No, I am smart enough to hunt dg w/ a suitable rifle thank you. At least I do have some dg experience I am betting maybe you don't? The fact that some Alaska LE carry 10mm is probably due more to having to face armed people than big bears. In the event of a big bear, yes a 10mm would be better than a 9mm or 40 or 45. I'll bet though that those troppers do NOT carry heavy solids in their 10mm either, which is what you need to defeat hide & heavy muscle. They are for people stopping not bear stopping. Any Alaska LEO worth his badge will be pulling out the 12ga w/ slugs for the big bears.
Besides hammer, regardless of whether you think a 10mm in a rev. is moot, that is what the OP asked originally. You again, seemed to miss that & went off on mag cap, easy reloading, blah, blah, blah. Ok, I'm done beating this very dead horse, unless you would like to shoot it w/ your 10mm.

[HammerMTB]

Ok, I'm done beating this very dead horse, unless you would like to shoot it w/ your 10mm.

Ah, the words I long to hear! He puts away his shovel!
The hole you dug was deep enough, fred!

[Kuato]

Plain and simple guys, the 41 IS a revolver cartridge & the 10MM IS a pistol cartridge. Cant really compare the two as a revolver round. The 41 wins hands down if you want to carry 4 1/2 pounds of steel on your hip.

I've seen 220gr CAST loads for the 10mm hit 1300 + fps. Most of the data for the 10 is jacketed & all the practical data for the 41 is LEAD. Too many variables to compare the two.

Is the 41 Mag a fantastic round? Yes. Is the 10MM a fantastic round? Yes..
Is either cartridge popular? NO! That's why the 41 mag guys get steamed & the 10MM guys get steamed when they get told the 41 is "better". Better for what? Both rounds were made for different purposes .. I promise you guys this, If a hood gets shot with either round, he'll be quietly tucked away in the hurt locker for sure..

[MakeMineA10mm]

Sorry to dredge this thread up, but I somehow missed it back in December. (I was on vacation, what can I say??)

As far as the original question about differences in a revolver, I'd throw in two things that no one seems to have mentioned:

1. The 10mm CAN be fitted into a smaller framed revolver than the 41. I've seen L-Frames and GP-100s converted to 10mm. Can't quite (safely) squeeze a 41 into that size package, unless you go down to the custom 41 SPECIAL. And I believe ballistics between the 41 Spl. and 10mm would be nearly identical.

2. The 10mm has the benefit of moon clips for loading. I know one CAN get a moon clip conversion for any caliber, including the traditional rimmed revolver cartridges, but the 10mms come that way from the factory.


Now, as far as a couple questions that have come up in this thread:

1. Norma's original TWO loadings were: a 200gr FMJ-TC @ 1200fps AND a 170gr (actual weight on pulled bullets was 165-167grs) at 1350 to 1400fps (advertised and actual velocities fluctuated that 50fps over the first couple-three years).

2. The 41 Magnum was conceptualized by Bill Jordan, Elmer Keith, and Skeeter Skelton to be the ultimate police officer revolver cartridge, giving an "ideal" combination of power vs. recoil. Those three gents wanted a 200gr 41-cal. bullet at 1200 fps. The factories SCREWED IT UP! All the marketing types wanted a higher-powered round that would satisfy hunters (and don't forget the insatiable demand for 44s back in the 60s and 70s which the factories wanted to ride the coat tails of...). The 10mm CORRECTED this mistake, and put the IDEAL CONCEPT round in a semi-auto pistol, RIGHT at the time that police agencies were looking to convert from revolvers to semi-autos. If only D&D had made the Bren Ten more commercially viable, they may have taken the LE world by storm. A mere two years after they closed their doors, the FBI shoot-out in Miami happened and the FBI adopted the 10mm! (Oh, the barely missed chances of unfortunate timing...) Of course, then came plastic pistols and "acceptable" performance in a shorter package (40S&W) and the ideal ballistics of Keith/Skelton/Jordan went out the window... Now, the 10mm is a cartridge most appreciated by people who understand the concept and can handle the size and recoil of the guns.


As far as this big argument about the 10mm and 41 power level goes, I'd say that it's difficult to compare apples to apples since one is primarily a revolver round and the other is primarily a semi-auto round. (I bet there's been more revolvers made in 10mm than semi-autos in 41Mag, though...) The fact of the matter is, when one takes into account bore size, bullet weight, energy developed, and velocity obtained (and most other theories used in guns), the 10mm turns out to be in-between the 357 Mag and the 41 Mag.

The loads in 357 that people say make the 357 comparable to the 10mm are just as unusual and specialized as the 10mm loads that people are trying to use to compare the 10mm to being equal to the 41 Mag. Fact of the matter is, a run-of-the-mill high-pressure 41 mag load will, on average, always beat the 10mm by a moderate margin. Likewise, the run-of-the-mill high-pressure 10mm load (Win. Silvertip, Double-Tap, Buffalo Bore, or equivalent handloads) will beat the run-of-the-mill 357 load by a moderate margin. Think of the clear difference between the 357 and 41 Magnums, and the 10mm fits right in that gap.

While you can tell by name I'm a 10mm fan, for carrying out in the woods, I'm all over the 44s... 10mm is ideal anti-human-predatory medicine. I'll take a 44 for use in the field against 4-legged critters, both out of a sense of sportsmanship and self-preservation!

[sheepdog]

Or you could get an old Tokarev and push a tiny 30 cal at the speed of light with a 223 sabot you can break 2k fps. http://www.ammo-one.com/223Timbs.html

[yondering]

Or you could get an old Tokarev and push a tiny 30 cal at the speed of light with a 223 sabot you can break 2k fps. http://www.ammo-one.com/223Timbs.html

Or use the 10mm necked down to the 9x25 Dillon. ~2K fps with 95gr 9mm bullets. http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...products_id=47

Kind of a whole different thing than a 10mm as it was meant to be though...