762x54r handloads in mn9130 help

[dmdracer]

Greetings ,

Well where to begin.... I have had alot of time on my hands the last 8 weeks (7weeks out from colon cancer surgery...25% of colon removed... 5weeks out from a port surgery, thingy put under skin in my chest for the poison..errr chemo access and last week was my 2nd posion session... kinda put me down for 2 days but doing ok now !

I went to a local gun shop and saw the mn 9130 rifles...hmmm....that should give me a project while I have all this time. ok purchased one and 100 rds of mil surplus ammo.

now what? I know nothing about them.... soooo... I have spent alot of hours online researching, what a neat old rifle.

Seems ammo is not as ready available as it once was and I have been casting and handloading for the last 4 years so why not cast for this rifle ??

I have found lots of info on this but what I can't find is ...can I use some of the GB moulds like 311407m, 31141 and the Lee 90366 148 gr and get descent results?

The Lee C312-185-1r and C312-155-2r seems to do well from other post however I do not have them but don't mind getting one if it will make life easier. Which one would be better for me? I will use this rifle for plinking and target shooting and if the opportunity arises for a yote.... that would be cool which one would you recommend?

Wow....brass is pricey ! thinking I will buy some Prvi ammo and save the brass, any suggestions on this subject ?
I need dies also...seems a couple diff thoughts on this too.... help...

Thanks all for the help
Merry CHRISTmas to all

Dave

ps: Have you had an colonoscopy lately??? I'm a "poster boy" for this proceedure and urge you not to over look this.

In HIS love
Matt 6 :33

[Ricochet]

You'd probably do better buying the Prvi ammo and saving the brass, in the long run. Brass will also last a lot longer if you neck size it, if you're only using one rifle. A Lee collet neck sizer die for the 7.5mm Swiss has been reported to work well on this cartridge. The Lee full length sizer ships (or mine did) with an expander plug for .308" jacketed bullets and is too tight for cast boolits (which should be sized no smaller than .314".) I replaced mine with an expander ball for .303 British, which uses .311" bullets, but since it's sizing the necks down tightly and then expanding them back out the necks soon crack. I'd do the neck sizing if I didn't have several different Mosins. I don't want to keep track of segregated brass.

Don't own either of the two Lee moulds you mentioned, but I have the C312-160-2R tumble lube version of the 7.62x39 boolit. It shoots fairly well in my Mosins. I'm usually trying to shoot it too fast for best accuracy, I think. I have a couple of longer Group Buy boolits in the 200 grain range that shoot very well, so I'd expect the Lee 185 grainer to be a good prospect.

[dmdracer]

Ricochet,
Interesting info on the 7.5mm, where could I find info? I tried a search...
yes I only have the one Mosin so no confusion on neck sizing.

I slugged the bore and seems to be .3015/ .3108"... I also made up the dc powered bore cleaner with ammonia.... seemed to work rather well as I had previous scrubbed and removed a lot of gunk.

Thanks for your reply

Ya know, I have read about everday here at castboolits for a few yrs. now.... great place...great people, to my advantage... I "know" you all better than you all know of me.... guess I should post more often but I seem to find a lot of the answers from all your help to others that ask the same o questions us less experienced people have and I enjoy reading the "adventures" some of you post, I tell ya... I'm lol + at some

I do not post much but I'm allways reading and enjoying my time spent here.
thanks to all who make this site what it is.

Dave

[Junior1942]

Order an 8x57 expander from Lee. (SE2324 @ $3) Chuck it in your drill press. Then take a sharpening stone and touch it to the spinning expander and make it whatever diameter you want. Better order a couple of spares for later use and in case you hold the stone to the metal too long.

[badgeredd]

Ricochet,
Interesting info on the 7.5mm, where could I find info? I tried a search...
yes I only have the one Mosin so no confusion on neck sizing.

I slugged the bore and seems to be .3015/ .3108"... I also made up the dc powered bore cleaner with ammonia.... seemed to work rather well as I had previous scrubbed and removed a lot of gunk.

Thanks for your reply

Ya know, I have read about everday here at castboolits for a few yrs. now.... great place...great people, to my advantage... I "know" you all better than you all know of me.... guess I should post more often but I seem to find a lot of the answers from all your help to others that ask the same o questions us less experienced people have and I enjoy reading the "adventures" some of you post, I tell ya... I'm lol + at some

I do not post much but I'm allways reading and enjoying my time spent here.
thanks to all who make this site what it is.

Dave

Dave,

OK...I have something that you could share with us and I'd bet a good many would be interested. I want to klnow more about your bore cleaner.

I just picked up a 9130 myself. While I was shopping and before I spent the excess funds on something more sane, I got 2 boxes of Winchester loaded ammo. End thought was I COULD get the brass cheaper but this way I something to work with, NOW.

Don't be a stranger here and God's speed in your healing.

Edd

[B747]

Dave

I agree with Ricochet that the cheapest way to get the brass is buy the Prvi ammo & save the brass, but having said that Lapua does make some really nice brass for the 7.62X54R.

For a mold for the 91/30's & Finn M39's it's pretty hard to beat the Lyman 314299.
You are going to need a "fat" bullet for these to fill those big throats --- try sizing it at 314 and if it fits in the throat you are good to go.

Any of the powders in the AA5744, 2400, SR4759 range in mild loads of 1600 to 1700 fps will perform well in these old battle rifles.

Neck size down just enough to where you can't turn the seated bullet and seat it out to where the nose or better yet the fwd drive band just starts to touch /engrave.

I pray for a full and speedy recovery for you.

Merry Christmas
Wally

[dmdracer]

Junior.... use it in what die? the 7.5mm or a 762x54 ... full lenght or neck size?
thanks

Badgeredd.... thru my research, I stumbled onto this http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/copperout/index.asp sorry, don't know how to make it hot. I purchased the stuff I needed @ Lowes....1/8" rod etc and I used a 9v battery and only charged it around 20 mins. the 9v got hot so I got scared and unhooked it, amazed at what came out and the copper on the rod, try it I think you will like it. enjoy your 9130 and thanks for the support.

Wally, thanks for the info and the prayer.
looked at that mold, ouch $56.00...I know it is quality wish Lee had one this size $20.00

did a little polishing on the sear, definitly helped to smooth it out, I'll do the drill and tap for the set screw on the sear thingy I found here http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/vie...d8d87f4674b08b

thanks all, I'm enjoying this project.

Dave

[beemer]

I have very good results with the Lee 312-185-1R. You might check on RCBS dies, I have been told they are supplied with both size expanders. The Lee sizer comes with a 308 but a 311 for the 303 Brit can be ordered to replace it. Both will work the brass more than a neck sizer. Pirvi brass works fine, the Win brass I have has shallow primer pockets.

Wish you a fast recovery and a Merry Christmas!

beemer

[Ricochet]

I don't think Junior's suggestion is helpful unless you need really big boolits over .314" in size (which will also mean you'll need custom or "Beagled" mould), and it doesn't solve the problem of cracking case necks because the regular FL die sized the neck down tighter than necessary for a .308" jacketed bullet and then the oversized expander ball stretched it back out. That's already an issue with the ball for the .303's .311" bullets, which works fine with .314" boolits, which work fine in all of my Mosins. The fix would be honing out the neck of the FL die, but that's not something in my near future. I just offered the suggestion of the 7.5x55mm Swiss collet neck sizing die as an alternative to the FL die as it's been reported on here to work. Possibly a .308 neck sizing die would work, or a 7.65x53mm (Argentine, Belgian and others) might. I haven't studied the case drawings to see if there would be any interference at the neck-shoulder junction with a die for those shorter rounds. The outline of the case body of the 7.62x54R pretty closely matches the .308, though, with more body taper, a larger head diameter, and a slightly longer neck, so it just might work with one of those. The place to order single Lee dies like that is on Lee's site.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Well my friend I share a common link with you. Hello dmdracer. Dec. 17 was my 1 yr. anniversary for my colon surgery. In ft. terms they removed 3 ft. colon to get the 95% blocking tumor and 3 1/2 ft of large intestine along with 16 lymph nodes around the colon. I had the port in upper left chest and 6 mo. of chemo for 6 hr. every 2 weeks. I couldn`t believe how weak I got by halfway thru the chemo. By the end I was weak as a kitten. I`m getting stronger now and doing things I couldn`t. My chemo Dr. told me to ignore any advice given to me by well meaning friends. He was my Dr. not them. I imagine you are going thru the stage of nothing cold to drink or eat. Also the stay out of the cold stage. There is an end to the treatments and feeling like crap for days afterward so hang in there. I re-discovered my Lord during my low spells and am a better person now for it. I have a Mosin myself but haven`t done much with it so this thread will be of help to me also. Robert

[Junior1942]

Junior.... use it in what die? the 7.5mm or a 762x54 ... full lenght or neck size?

I use a plain ol' Lee 7.62x54R full length die. As Ricochet said, it will overwork the necks, but I haven't had a failure yet. The beauty of the drill press/whetstone reduction method is being able to easily make your own custom diameter expander.

Reduce a $3, .324" expander to .313" or even .314". Load a bullet and chamber the round. If it won't chamber or chambers tightly, reduce the expander to .312". Repeat. Have extra expanders just in case.

PS: DON'T use a file. The Lee expanders aren't very hard. Use a fine whetstone.

[Ricochet]

You make a pretty good case for it.

I do think that's an excellent way to make custom size expander balls, and not a lot of work.

[Three44s]

You'll have my thoughts and prayers for a speedy and full recovery!!!

Hang in there ..........!!!

So far as the Mosin ..... you have Chosin!! .......... good pick ........ I like those 91/30's ..... snagged two! Two ....... M44s and a M38.

My favs ........ the M38 ........ kicks like a mule ....... but it's a very trim package ....... you can par an M44 down as well....... a friend had them and they both were Keyholers at close range ...... mine don't seem to so I guess I am lucky.

The 91/30's are the best if the length is not an issue ....... after all ....... sight radius is very useful.

Dies ......... I am a neophyte on this ....... but you own it to yourself to go slow for just a bit ......

One member ..... Larry Gibson can give you his take on this ....... he's very scientific on his die choice ...... it will cost bucks up front but save your (now) expensive brass ..........

Find Larry Gibson post haste before you order ........ that's my best advice!!

Another die option not brought up is to order the .308 win collet die and use a washer of a given thickness ........ but that will still lead to over working.

Me ...? I just have a Lee full length specific for the Russian and have only shot J-words thus far ........ so I am a student here on casting for the Russian ........

Best regards ........... best luck ..........

AND Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all within ear shot!!!!!!!!

Three 44s

[Larry Gibson]

Here's my take on it;

7.62x54R NS’ing

Get a Redding bushing die for the .284 Winchester. Shorten the bottom end of the die enough that the shoulder of a fire formed 7.62x54R case in the shell holder will just be short of bumping into the shoulder of the die. If you have fired 7.62x54R cases segregated for more than one rifle use the case with longest head to shoulder measurement. That way the shorter cases will fit without readjusting the die. The die can be shortened with a bench grinder but is best done with a lathe. A machinist or gunsmith should not charge too much for this if you can’t do it yourself. Then with 3-4 bushings .002-.003” apart you can perfectly size the size the case neck with .002-.003” neck tension for bullets of .308, .310, .311, 312, .314 or .316”. This gives a perfect fit for the bullet diameter used. The Le case mouth flaring die perfectly compliments this. I’ve not lost a case to split neck or incipient head separation since I began using this method 20 years ago and I shoot several 7.62x54Rs quite a bit.

I still have a box of original Norma cases (factory ammo) I bought in ’68 for my Type 53 and M91/28 I brought home from Viet Nam. It had been fired in the Type 53, full length sized 3-5 times and then neck sized I don’t know how many times with no loss of cases. Conversely I picked up some once fired Norma cases and FL sized them several times for use in the M91/28. The cases were sized quite a bit to get them to chamber. After several firings I started to get incipient head separations. Twenty years ago there wasn’t any NS dies for the 7.62x54R so I made my own as above. Most all commercial NS dies squeeze the necks down so .308 bullets can be used and then depend on expanders to expand them. The nice thing about the Redding Bushing die is you size the necks to only what is needed for the diameter of bullet used. This minimally works the case necks. I’ve also never needed to anneal any necks when they are minimally sized as such. I have 2 fifty round boxes of Norma cases that have been fired over 20 times in my M39 with not a single loss.

Yes the Redding Bushing die + 4-5 bushings is more $ up front but in the long run I have not only saved with no more case loss but I get very accurate reloads with cast and jacketed bullets. My M91/28 sniper shoots moa with both.

Larry Gibson

[Ricochet]

A collet die won't overwork your brass if you adjust it to only size down as much as necessary.

[dmdracer]

WOW... you guys are a wealth of info.... Always said "there are many ways to get to "xxxx" from here" going to take awhile and digest all this.

many thanks to all that responded and a special thanks for the prayers and support...God bless you all.

small update..... the trigger work is good....MUCH better than I expected with the mods mentioned above.

I shot 2 rounds of win 180gr sp last eve. at a dirt pile about 140 yds. I'm not sure I even hit the thing and was pressed for time to go to dinner so I did not go see ??? will wonder that way later today.

I was not sure what to expect, put on some safety gear, aimed, closed my eyes and pulled that nice trigger as I pulled that stock so ever tight into my shoulder.... hey that was not as bad as I thought it woukd be and nothing blow up... great... do it again.... as my wife is hollering.... we have to go now so quickly chambered another and bang...same thing ...cool, it works anyway . Recoil was softer than I expected but I have a feeling after a "few" rds. I probably would be a little tender the next day.

Larry, do you ever have to f/l size the brass after x amount of n/s to get rd to chamber? I have experienced this in my Savage bolt rifle.
I also noticed the rds were a little hard to extract after fired.... I recall reading something about this somewhere but some much info it's hard to digest it all at once.... ok.. I'm not the brightest bulb sometimes but I try hard all the time Larry, thanks for your input, I'm probably leaning toward your way... yep...few more $$ but I think kinda like you... and look down the road for overall best results.

Robert my friend, thank you and God bless... HE is good...all the time... huh?
I appreciate your inspiration. yep the cold thing is ??? weird ?? neorotheapy sp? I know what that is now !
My "poisoning" is a little dif than yours, I go the first day for about 5hrs, before I leave they hook up a pump that I wear like a fanny pack and it dispences ever few mins. for 46 hrs. then I go the "3rd" day to remove and flush... less than 10 mins in the office and home to take a shower, YES !.... "spit baths" while I have the pump YUCK! every 2 weeks for 6 months is my schedule as of now. 2 down and ....lots to go !

It is what it is and I'll get thru it.

thanks all...hope everyone has a great Christmas and you all get the toys under the tree that you wished for. I sure did !

Dave

[beemer]

If you have a lathe you can get a Lee collet die for a 303 British and shorten the collet and the mandrel. You have be careful not to get it to short. The 303 is set up for 311 bullets.

beemer

[Larry Gibson]

WOW... ...Larry, do you ever have to f/l size the brass after x amount of n/s to get rd to chamber? I have experienced this in my Savage bolt rifle. I also noticed the rds were a little hard to extract after fired.... I recall reading something about this somewhere but some much info it's hard to digest it all at once.... ok.. I'm not the brightest bulb sometimes but I try hard all the time Larry, thanks for your input, I'm probably leaning toward your way... yep...few more $$ but I think kinda like you... and look down the road for overall best results.

Dave

With cast bullet loads I've not had to FL or partial FL at all. The pressure is a lot lower with these and the cases are not worked as hard. However with full power service match loads using Sieera MK 174 gr .311 bullets in my M91/28 sniper I have to partial FL size about every 6-8 loadings. This is on par with the '06 and .308W out of my other match rifles.

Another benifit of the Redding .284W Bushing die is that it can also be used, with the same range of bushings, to NS for the 7.65 Swiss for all those K31s out there. Thus with the same die you can load for 2 different cartridges.

Larry Gibson

[fireflyfather]

Couple of quick thoughts:

I love my 91/30. I use a combination of salvaged PRVI brass from HOTSHOT/WOLF GOLD ammo, and virgin PRVI brass from Grafs. It's basically the same stuff, and I've not lost a single case with the exception of one I mechanically mangled while pulling a bullet (don't ask). I mostly neck size using a Lee Loader, or FL size the occasional round that gets sticky, using standard Lee FL dies. Before seating the bullet, I use a pair of needle nose pliers or similar conical tool to just slightly expand the case mouth. A light crimp afterwards seems to hold the rounds in place nicely, provided you seat past the last lube groove. However, I don't load hot (15 grains of Red Dot, MAX).

I also use the 160gr TL Lee mold, which drops at .312. I am using it with fast powders (Red Dot & Promo @7 grain gallery loads and 13 grains or so for casual shooting), and have found it to be reasonably accurate for plinking.

A lot of folks her have been throwing around the .314 number, but I've only heard one person actually mention slugging your bore. By the sound of it, you might be able to get away with .312 bullets just fine. I can get at least 4MOA using .312 bullets in a .312 bore. I'm hoping to get a slightly larger bullet mold and see if that will shrink down the groups, but you have to match it to YOUR rifle.

[Ricochet]

Of course slugging the bore's a good idea!

But .312-.315" is the common range for groove diameters in these rifles, and .314" is the largest standard Lee push-through sizer suitable for them. Boolits of that diameter work well in all my Mosins. Actually, if you want to custom size particularly for it, the largest boolit that will chamber easily in the throat ahead of the rifling is the way to go. But then you'll likely need some sort of custom sizing die, if the boolits are much bigger than .314".