357 Maximum lever rifle

[badgeredd]

Why not use a a 35rem gun for the conversion? .440"rim VS .460" rim should work, and .3" in difference in length. Solder a spacer on the carrier for the shortened cartridge.

I would love a 357 max . levergun. Have a rechambered Ruger #1 in that caliber and I am amazed just what the round can do.

You may be on to something there Rockrat. I have a 336SC that needs some (actually quite a bit) of TLC. I loaded 3 dummy cartridges into the magazine, and they seem to feed ok. One might have to add metal to the cartridges stop and would definitly have to change the extractor, but it does look to be do-able. Hmmmmmmm...maybe cut the barrel off and set it back for the new chamber?
It would result in a shortened carbine like barrel but I think it is possible without great expense. Gonna have to study this idea more.

If you look at the picture above(post #16), notice the cartridge second from the right. Does it appear to be "straight walled?" My idea if the Max won't work. Since I am very partial to 35 caliber guns, it is my preferred alternative. Second choice for an alternative and likely a bit cheaper to build would be the left cartridge, a shortened 38-55.

Edd

[McLintock]

When I got my first '94 in 38-55, it was a Oliver F. Winchester commemerative with a 24" barrel. As I got it for Cowboy Action long range side matches, I needed to get nine rounds in the mag for most 10 round shoots, so I'd only have to load one round on the clock. I started shortening the cases until I got down to 1.90" and got the nine rounds in the mag. It fed good and functioned fine, but that rifle had a quirk I couldn't get out of it. With a cold barrel it placed the first shot about 15-18" high, the second half that or so and the third about a quarter of that, no matter the case length, but once the barrel heated up a little it shot good.
The point is I think shortened 38-55 rounds will work good through a '94 action and shoot good if your gun doesn't have a quirk like that one did. I got 1450 fps with that shortened load and a 250 gr bullet, with IMR 4227 powder. After I basically did away with the original gun, sold the action and still have the barrel and wood, I used the shortened cases in my Browning '85 and it shot like gangbusters, very consistent and accurate. So, I wouldn't hesitate to shorten to 1.8", you can seat the bullet out a bit if you need a longer OAL. I did that with 265 gr gas check bullets for the single shot and a pretty hot load with both IMR 3031 and RL7.
McLintock

[badgeredd]

Same here. Lets keep our fingers crossed that it does pass!

Edit: On the other hand I could just take my Marlin 1894SS in .44 Magnum, right?

Yeah Dutch, but what's the fun in that? I think I have a reason for another rifle here. And of course the idea of something different is a really siren for me. Gun cranks just gotta.

Edd

[Nrut]

Edd,
What boolit do you have loaded in the 35/30-30 and 35/30-40?
Is it the NOE 358318 FN?

[JFE]

As someone has already suggested you really need to start with a Win 1894 in 357. Something similar has been done before by a guy called Tycer. Not sure whether he is member here but he posts on the leverguns website and is very approachable and helpful.

Here is a link to an article on what he did with his conversion.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/Trapper.html

Its not quite a 357 Max conversion, but you could take his concept a little further and it should be inexpensive and relatively easy to perform.

Joe

ps. BTW there no reason you couldnt do the same with a Win 1894 in 44 or 45LC and go to 445 and 460S&W respectively. It would need to be handloads only though as the 1894 isnt designed for high pressure loads.

[Four Fingers of Death]

When I started reading this post I immediately thought 360Dan Wesson., minimal work to be done to get that to work, just open up the chamber and check the feed I suppose. An 1894 Marlin springs to mind with a few mods to allow the slightly longer case. I wonder if I could rechamber my 92 Rossi (the one n my avitar) to 360DW and still feed 38s for cowboy stuff?

Paco Kelly bought out an a$$ kicking load using a 38+P+ case and the 180Gn XTR bullet. I can't find it anywhere, but it had serious whoompum!

[badgeredd]

Edd,
What boolit do you have loaded in the 35/30-30 and 35/30-40?
Is it the NOE 358318 FN?

Nrut,

That boolit is my own creation. It is a Lyman 358315 modified to the nose profile you see. Weighs 235 grains with lube and check. A friend talked me out of that particular mold so I have to make another for myself. I am told that it works out to 200 yards so far with no stability issues. My idea was to have a LARGE meplat with slight engraving on the nose which I achieved, Now I have to duplicate the cutter I made it with to make a new mold for myself. The friend would likely let me borrow it back...but then again maybe not.

Edd

[Old Ironsights]

Yep. I've seen Tycer's .360DW. Being the Political Animal I am that fought the Indiana PCR fight so I could use my .357 Rossi, I can understand the legal issues...

But I really don't see why (other than "cool factor") you would want to go through the stress of building a max gun. The .357 with the Buffalo Bore/Junior C358180RF load will stomp 'em stone dead out to 100+ yds with ease. Once I worked with that load in my Rossi a bit, I lost all desire for a Maximum/B&D project.

[NHlever]

I guess my question is why? Why expose your nice lever gun to pressures it was never designed for to gain a very few yards in practical performance? Standard pistol calibers are proven deer rounds so I really see little point in the exercise. Call me a PIA, but I think a scoped muzzleloader using pellet powder, and sabot bullets is stretching the idea of a primitive hunting season further than it should be stretched anyway. Of course I guess the object is to "win", no matter how far you have to stretch an idea. How you can call a 10 shot lever action repeating rifle "primitive" hunting is beyoned me. Since it is so primitive, maybe we should allow hunting at night with lights........

OK, end of rant. It is always fun to experiment with new calibers, or play with modifying the ones we have........

[badgeredd]

I guess my question is why? My question is why not!Why expose your nice lever gun to pressures it was never designed for to gain a very few yards in practical performance? I don't understand your thinking here. The 357 Max has no more pressure than the 35 Remington. The law will allow a straight walled cartridge up to 1.8" long and I love the 357 Max. Perhaps you're talking of a different cartridge than what I assumed you were(OP was for the 357 Max)...if so I apologize for the rant. It just seems to me that our hobby is full of people that want to try something different and I see that as a good thing.Standard pistol calibers are proven deer rounds so I really see little point in the exercise. The 357 max IS a pistol cartridge, although I guess one could say not a general standard.Call me a PIA, but I think a scoped muzzleloader using pellet powder, and sabot bullets is stretching the idea of a primitive hunting season further than it should be stretched anyway. How does this apply to the centerfire season here? Of course I guess the object is to "win", no matter how far you have to stretch an idea. How you can call a 10 shot lever action repeating rifle "primitive" hunting is beyoned me. I don't understand this statement either. This isn't the primitive season I am talking about. BTW, as best as I can figure, it (custon 357 Max rifle) would have no more than a six shot magazine capacity. Since it is so primitive, maybe we should allow hunting at night with lights........As to the primitive season, I prefer my underhammers or my cap locks.

OK, end of rant. It is always fun to experiment with new calibers, or play with modifying the ones we have........AND ther you have it. Just something a bit different cause I can.

Interesting comments, but I don't understand where they came from. In this area of the state a centerfire rifle hasn't been legal for years. I personally detest shotguns for deer...not saying they won't do the job...just don't like them for myself which I believe is my option. Since I now may have the option of using a rifle I would like to have, I'll indeed take advantage of the opportunity. AND if I can build a rifle to do it why not go for it. IF it was legal in my area, I'd likely use a tirty-tirty or my 35/30-30 and be happy as a piggie in mud.

Edd

[bearcove]

I've thought about this too. Simplest way I could see would be a 336 in 35 Rem. Set the barrel back and rechamber. Probably need to fiddle around with feeding but seating bullets out as long as possible might help. Then you would need to deal with that extra case capacity. Bummer, bit more powder maybe. I want to do one with a new barrel that has ballard rifling. Be a great deer rifle. With the smaller case capacity a 18 inch barrel would be ideal.

I think its a great idea by the way. And I don't NEED one for where I hunt!

[badgeredd]

Bearcove,

After looking over my 336SC I have come to the conclusion that the 35 Rem to 357 Max may well be the answer. I am assuming the carrier will have to be slightly modified and the extractor will need changed, but everything else seems to be pretty straight forward. And yes I'd prefer Ballard type rifling BUT if I can get this to work the way I think it will, I can always swap in a new barrel after I've proven out the concept. I really don't think that one would be required to seat the boolit out to affect proper feeding, but that will be determined as the project proceeds. My thinking is that the original barrel will lose about 1.6" to eliminate the original chamber, leaving an 18 3/8" long barrel....perfect carbine length in my mind. While talking to a friend yesterday, I voiced the thought of shortening the barrel and forearm to maintain existing dovetails in the SC barrel which seems to be a pretty good way to cut down on the work involved in the conversion. The mag tub could be shortened appropriately also so everything in front of the forearm would remain basically the same.

I don't "NEED" this conversion either...just want it CUZ!

Edd

[NHlever]

I was under the impression that there are a couple of states that allowed pistol calibers for primitive seasons, and thought you were talking about that. My mistake, and I'm sorry, pistol calibers are a viable alternative to shotguns. I also thought the .357 Maximum was a 50,000 cup pressure caliber, and the load information I have shows 46,900 lbs cup which is quite a bit higher than the .357 mag, etc. I do know that when fired in a single action revolver with the original ammo it would stretch a frame enough to allow full grains of powder to escape in a cardboard box when the barrel / cylinder gap was less than .003. The .35 Rem data I have is held to 35,00 CUP.

I apologize if I came across to harshly.

Now, just for the sake of saying it, a .223 case is the same diameter as a .357, but headspacing off the case mouth might be a bit iffy in a rifle. Was there ever a .222 rimmed?

[felix]

Yes!!! ... felix

[GLL]

My .357Maximum "lever rifle" !

Jerry

[badgeredd]

I was under the impression that there are a couple of states that allowed pistol calibers for primitive seasons, and thought you were talking about that. My mistake, and I'm sorry, pistol calibers are a viable alternative to shotguns. I also thought the .357 Maximum was a 50,000 cup pressure caliber, and the load information I have shows 46,900 lbs cup which is quite a bit higher than the .357 mag, etc. I do know that when fired in a single action revolver with the original ammo it would stretch a frame enough to allow full grains of powder to escape in a cardboard box when the barrel / cylinder gap was less than .003. The .35 Rem data I have is held to 35,00 CUP.

I apologize if I came across to harshly.

Now, just for the sake of saying it, a .223 case is the same diameter as a .357, but headspacing off the case mouth might be a bit iffy in a rifle. Was there ever a .222 rimmed?

Totally understood. No problem.

Yes I believe you are correct about the pressure thingy (I was thinking the max was about 40000 psi or less), but I have to believe the bolt thrust of a 357 Max is going to be considerably less than say the 45-70 in the 1895 Marlin. H&R chambered the 357 Max in their Handi Rifle (I have one) so the operating pressure and bolt trust I believe should be safe in a 336. I WILL have to verify the pressures before I proceed though.

Yes there was/is a 222 Rimmed version which I believe can be formed from 357 Max brass or at least nearly so. So one would be going the long way to get there so to speak. A 223 could be used as you mention, but I honestly don't care for cartridges that headspace off the mouth of the case ala 45 ACP in a rifle type situation. Probably nothing wrong with it, but just my likes.

Edd

[badgeredd]

My .357Maximum "lever rifle" !

Jerry

Jerry...you are a mean man.

I'd love to go that route but I am kinda settled into the Lever/repeater idea. Besides the money tree here died this last fall so I have to be more careful about spending it.

Edd

[bearcove]

Yes , I think the money tree is going extinct due to a variety of exotic conservation measures.

[NHlever]

Industry standard pressure for the .357 Max is 48,000 cup. That is still under the 375 Winchester though, and a few Marlins, and the BB Winchester's were chambered for that.

[badgeredd]

Industry standard pressure for the .357 Max is 48,000 cup. That is still under the 375 Winchester though, and a few Marlins, and the BB Winchester's were chambered for that.

Thank you. That was my main reason for wanting to use a 336 since they seem to be the strongest lever action on the market now.

Edd