Originally Posted by Windy City Kid
I am new to reloading but if this is for a .45acp, isn't it a little long for OAL?
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I am new to reloading but if this is for a .45acp, isn't it a little long for OAL?
Super38,
Thank you for catching that.
I edited my earlier post, this is what should have been posted.
Lyman 452460 200gr. SWC
Lead alloy: WW with 2% tin.
4.3grs. WST
Lubed with Carnauba Red only in the bottom lube groove and lightly dusted with mica powder.
OAL 1.193"
Crimp to .473"
Another good load is.
Lee 200gr RNFP
Lead alloy: WW with 2% tin.
4.3grs. WST
Lubed with Carnauba Red and lightly dusted with mica powder.
OAL 1.168"
Crimp to .473"
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Four pages in this thread and Catshooter is the only one that got it right for maximum power for stopping large animals. Defence?
If the SWC boolit will feed in your gun, [does in mine] it makes your .45 an awesome 16 shot weapon. Does in mine.
I also use the 255 grain RNFP Colt boolit and it works well too.
I don't use any of the ***** cat loads in my forty five. No spring change needed.This thread proves to me that most people that shoot forty fives are not serious. Serious competetion maybe, but not really serious.
And yes, I shoot paper with them ------- Sometimes.
I rather think that Colonel Cooper would like what I do with the fortyfive.
Life is good
I see lots of 230 ball spec recipes, not exactly what I would consider cat sneeze loads. If someone shoots 10X more than you but only shoots a 200gr # 68 to 875 fps, I don't think that makes them any less serious. Probably means they're better shots due to the practice. The beauty of the .45 is that it's versatile and easy on the shooter. I shoot tons of the #68's for practice, but carry is a whole different scenario. I guess I shoot a lot more at paper than I do at bad guys or viscious rabid animals. That said, I have been curious about trying my 45colt Lee 255 rnfp in my 1911's...
What OAL do you use with that boolit since I have a bunch cast?This boolit:
On top of 4.7 grains of Universal Clays out of this pistol:
Gives me just about 800 fps. And does it ever shoot straight. The mould is a current Lyman 452424, cast out of WW it weighs about 255.
Cat
RCBS 45-230CM over 6.0 Unique is my absolute go-to favorite; the group buy BD45CM is just as good. Same load with the BD45ACP works in tuned 1911s and Glocks. I have ordered the upcoming NOE 210 grain version of the BD45 and may change my mind based on it.
IMO, the 45ACP needs higher velocity more than increased boolit weight given equivalent nose profiles.
Tony
LP- It's funny you mentioned the Colonel, I speak to him through a psychic medium. He told me it was ok to have fun with my .45 as long as I'm never second place when things get serious. So far so good.
I load my 260 grain SWC boolits with just a little of the front band sticking out of the case. Maybe ten or twenty thousandths. If they fit in the magazine and chamber and feed you're good to go. I use unique. Try for 800 - 850 fps.
Let's see what Cat says.
Life is good
NHlever,
looseprojectile nailed it. Most ACPs have little to no throat, so if you seat the front driving band out much more than .020 or so the band will start to be engraved by the rifling. Bad juju, as they won't come out of the chamber, and sometimes will fight you hard when you try to open the action and won't quite let it close.
The boolit in my pic is the current production from Lyman of their 452425. It's not a true Keith, but I do like it nonetheless.
Most of my .45 autos are Smiths. The 1911 has a little protrusion that when the magazine is empty the follower touchs and then raises, thus locking the slide back. On the Smiths, this little protrusion isn't so little, it's probably twice as long and if the meplat of the boolit is very big, they collide with the round still in the mag. This locks the slide back when you don't want it back.
The above boolit's meplat is nicely small enough that they don't collide. Happiness abounds.
Like looseprojectile, I aslo try for 800 to 850. I get just a bit over 800 out of my Smith Shorty 45 with it's three and three quarter inch barrel with 4.7 grains of Universal Clays. It has never given me any trouble in my Shorty. 'Course, the Shorty will feed an empty case, too.
I like the .45, does it show?
Cat
Cogito, ergo armatum sum.
(I think, therefore I'm armed.)
Lee 200 swc with 5.8 gr W231. I know it's not the H&G #68, but boy it shoots good!
Lee 200 swc with 7.5 gr (max load) Unique for self defense.
Lee 200 gr. RNFP (runs about 209 gr. with WW).
4.1 grains of Promo (Red Dot)
750fps out of my 1911.
My favorite is the one that I make with 308 brass and the RCBS Shot shell die set. Those are filled with 6 or 8 shot in a .410 wad, and capped off with a 00 buck. They cycle pretty well from a 1911. Just fun to shoot.
Doug
4.5 grains of Titegroup under a 230 grain Speer Gold Dot
Might as well share the bear stoppers i've been working on.
I traded for some of the Lee 255 grain rnfp's. Nice bullets.
Now, in my Speer #12, they list their 260 grain jacketed load at 6.9 grains of Herco, for about 825fps. This load, is at the SAAMI limit of 21,000 psi, accourding to this Speer book.
So, I gets to thinkin. I loaded up these Lee 255 grain rnfp with 6.5 and 7.0 charge of Herco. I was figuring around 850 fps for the 7.0 loads. I ran the loads over my Chrony and the 7.0 loads were running an average of 956 for a ten shot string. High was 996, (WOW) and low was 923, respectively. Recoil was brisk but not abusive to me. I shoot the Taurus PT 1911. There were no failures to fire or failures to feed.
I then shot both loads at 12.5 yards. With a standing two handed hold, all shots went into 2", and shot 2" high of any of my other loads with any bullets. This is close enough for me.
One needs to use the slower powder/powders to get the higher velocities with the heavier bullets, to keep the pressure spike low and gradual. To my suprise, these heavy loads were the cleanest loads I have ever fired in my pistol. There was no unburnt powder and very little leading. I usually shoot
W231 with a 200 grain swc for practice with a very dirty burn.
The biggets problem with the Herco, is the LACK of ability to throw consistant powder charges.
I loaded a batch of 6.8 grains of the Herco with the Lee rnfp in my Dillon SD loader.
High was 980, low was 867, and average was 909 fps. This load matches the old Colt 45 black powder load with its 255 grain bullet.
I have loaded up a batch of 10 round weighing each charge. The charge is 6.8 grains of Herco. I am anticipating 900+ fps. This will be my woods carry load. I would be comfortable with this load in my pistol on my belt for anything up to black bear. I do believe I could get one of the black bruins leaking really bad with this load. Now, Grizz would be a whole nuther story.
After Chronying the weighed loads, I will post another update.
Good loading to you all, and be safe.
Jack
Last edited by littlejack; 02-04-2010 at 12:08 AM.
I went to the range to Chrony the 45 acp loads today. Again, the load consisted of 6.8 (weighed) grains of Herco powder. The bullet is the Lee 255 rnfp. The pressure would be at 21,000 psi or under according to the Speer # 12 book. They are just what I wanted. The average of 10 shots was 897 fps. This will be a good packin load in the woods.
Jack
I might point out that you cannot make any assumptions about the pressure of your load if you're using a different bullet. I would also remind you that the Speer load is running 825 fps while your bullet is going considerably faster, so assuming you have the same pressure may be unwarranted. Speer did not pressure test their loads with the Lee bullet; they used their own jacketed bullet.
I also have that 255 Lee bullet, and depending upon overall loaded length it seats somewhat deeper to a lot deeper in the case than a 230 ball bullet......and deeper bullet seating and greater bullet weight mean more pressure, and likely more pressure than you're figuring. The depth of Speer's 260 in the case may also differ from your load.
Since a lighter 230 grain jacketed bullet at 950 fps runs to Plus P pressures in many instances, you're also likely at Plus P pressures with your heavier bullet seated deeper that approximates the same speed. I would suggest that any 255 grain bullet nearing 1000 fps may be exceeding Plus P pressures.
Just a few comments to prevent you from making some possibly unwarranted assumptions. It would be more correct to say if you were using the identical bullet as Speer, and the identical load got the identical velocity, then you'd be running the same pressure. Any deviation in velocity on the high side would imply your pressures are running somewhat higher. As would bullet weight and depth of bullet seating.
If you can keep that 255 at around 900, given the deeper bullet seating and heavier weight, that's likely nearer plus P than standard pressures......and as far as you should go. I doubt the bear would ask about the difference between a 230 grain bullet at 900 and a 255 bullet at 900 anyway! Assuming the 230 also has a big flat nose, and many 230 designs do.
Look at BD's design sometime.
Anyway, I am sure your load would give a black bear a certain headache, and would do most other things no good at all. Good luck with it!
Last edited by 35remington; 02-05-2010 at 09:38 PM.
Nice load, littlejack.
35 Remington has some valid points, however, remember that Speer is using a jacketed bullet while you're using lead. Jackets are much harder that even the hardest lead, so the lead loads, all thing being equal (which, of course, they never are!) the lead loads will be less pressure than jacketed.
Good luck and enjoy your .45!
Cat
Cogito, ergo armatum sum.
(I think, therefore I'm armed.)
I'd not assume the Speer load is necessarily lower pressure because it's jacketed. Seating depth plays a major role here in the issue of generated pressures with these fast powders.....and make no mistake, with a 255 Herco is still relatively fast as powders go.
Point is, the assumption that pressures are equal with two widely varying bullets is a risky one, especially when we don't know everything about the seating depth used.
35:
You make good arguments sir. But, on the other hand even if one was to use all of the componants used by Speer in their 260 grain bullets load, you know as well as I, that does not mean that the pressure and velocity would be the same. There would be many variables in the firearm and maybe in the individual cases used, the difference in lots of primers and difference in lots of the powder used. That could and would change pressures and velocities.
Reguarding my load, I have dropped the powder charge 1/10 of a grain and substituted a cast lead bullet of lighter weight, replacing a jacketed bullet of heavier weight. In my expierience, cast bullets shoot faster than jacketd bullets with the same powder charge, and with less pressure. This is also seen in many of the reloading manuals that I load from.
In your second paragraph, you compared the seating depth of the 230 ball to the 255 Lee. These two bullets cannot be compared. It seems you are assuming that the 255 grain Lee seats deeper than the Speer 260 grain jacketd without having practical expierience in reloading the Speer 260 grain. I will say, that I do not know what the depth of the Speer bullet seats. But, I will not say that the Lee cast seats deeper, because for the same reason, I do not know the seating depth of the Speer jacketed. I will say that it is just as possible that the Speer jacketed would seat even deeper, being longer for its weight than the Lee cast.
I will also say that the cast bullets "generally" are shorter than jacketed bullets of the same weight, because the lead weighs more than jacket material. But, be that as it may, one has to load for the 45 acp remembering that the maximum COL is critical for the loading in the clips and the feeding of the beast.
You stated in your third paragraph, that approching the 950 fps with the 255 grain in your estimation would LIKELY be in the +P range. 950 fps is not my goal. Where did you come up with that?
I am holding my loads at the 900 fps range and using less powder to do it. Besides that, my #12 Speer book does not even show a load for the 230 grain cast using the Herco powder. How did you conclude???????????
Later STATING that You would suggest that the 255 grain slug nearing 1000 fps, may be exceeding +P pressures. Who's loading up to 1000 fps? Where did that come from. Was someone trying for 1000 fps I didn't know about?
In your last paragraph, you stated "given the deeper seating and heavier weight". What are you comparing my load to? Again, We do not know if the bullet is in fact being seated deeper, Secondly, again, you are apparently comparing the Lee 255 grain fp to any of the 230 ball bullets. Again, You cannot compare the two different bullets. They are two different animals and there is no load data in this book for the 230 bullet and Herco powder to compare.
I love a good discussion on ballistics and reloading techniques. You may have some valid points, but you need to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges, not apples to oranges. Good loading to you. No offence taken and none meant to you. I will be careful.
The only thing absolute in reloading is, Nothing is absolute.
Jack
35:
You are correct about the seating depth. We don't know if the 260 grain jacketed is seated deeper than the Lee cast or not.
I will give you this. There is no way for me to know what the pressure is in my load.
Jack
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