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Thread: lever or single shot only for sillywet?

  1. #1
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    lar45's Avatar
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    lever or single shot only for sillywet?

    Hi all, I thought that I read somewhere that they were going to relax the rules on rifles used? Is that so? could I get something like the Marlin 45-70 with the 28" bbl and use it?
    I was also looking at the rolling blocks in 43 spanish. Are they any good for this game? It looks like bullet choice is severly limited.
    I've seen a couple of rolling blocks listed for sale with a 45 bore but shorter than 45-70???
    Any thoughts for a good beginner rifle and round?

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy McLintock's Avatar
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    Howdy Lars,
    It depends on which competition you're shooting, they have NRA BPCR Silhouette, for single shots only, and they also have a NRA Lever gun Silhouette. The single shot side is further broken down into iron sight and scoped catagories and the Lever Gun side is broken down into Center Fire Cowboy Lever Action rifle and Pistol Cartridge Cowboy Lever Action Rifle. Action types don't cross and aren't apt to, although they may include more gun types in the Lever Gun categories as they go along.
    So far as the .43 Spanish, if you can get it to hit the targets, it'll work. Should have enough bullet to knock over the rams and many rollers are used so the action isn't a detriment. Not many people shooting the caliber, so load development would probably be pretty much up to you to figure out. My uncle is shooting a .43 Egyption with black powder (not in silhouette), after we found a good mould for it.
    McLintock

  3. #3
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    Are there affordable dies for the 43 Egyptian? Midway has 43 Mauser and 43 Spanish dies at a reasonable price, but the only thing I saw for the Egyptian was RCBS custom order for $200+

    thanks

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Lars, if memory serves me correctly the 43 spanish is not legal in nra silhouette. If you shop around pedersoli makes a nice accurate rifle for the beginer at a reasonable price but there sights are not the best. The 45-70 is the most popular caliber, reloading and components are availible and reasonably priced. Good luck.

  5. #5
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    I saw on gunbroker that someone in Pocatello has a sharps replica up for sale. Maybe that's a sign, I should look the guy up and go get it. IT's in 45-70 also. I just happen to have 500 rounds of win 45-70 brass new sitting in the gun room and a bunch of 45 cal molds already for the 45-70 BFR. A gun shop in town has one, but it's priced about $300 too much.
    I was thinking about putting a Green mountain sharps style barrel on one of my Hopkins and Allen 12 ga frames, but I'm too busy making lube to do much of anything else.

    I've seen a couple of rolling blocks that say their 45 cal, but shorter than 45-70. Any ideas on this? Is it a .458 bore? could it just be reamed out to 45-70?

    TIA

  6. #6
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    I forgot about that (crew-served) wheelgun you have...

    You must definitely get a .45-70 rifle. Lots of folks in the 1800's took to the idea of carrying one kind of round for both weapons. For some unknown reason, it didn't catch on with the buffalo hunters.
    CM
    Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

  7. #7
    Banned Bucks Owin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lar45
    Hi all, I thought that I read somewhere that they were going to relax the rules on rifles used? Is that so? could I get something like the Marlin 45-70 with the 28" bbl and use it?
    I was also looking at the rolling blocks in 43 spanish. Are they any good for this game? It looks like bullet choice is severly limited.
    I've seen a couple of rolling blocks listed for sale with a 45 bore but shorter than 45-70???
    Any thoughts for a good beginner rifle and round?

    FWIW, the club where I shoot steel is NRA and IHMSA "ruled" and I'm not allowed to shoot my .45/70 NEF in silhouette. Gotta have a lever on it!

    Dennis

    (Seems odd that a sport that needs participants would shut out the single shots IMO...)
    Last edited by Bucks Owin; 05-18-2006 at 08:11 PM.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master wills's Avatar
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    If you go to BPCRS matches you will mostly see Sharps, Rolling Block and Hi Wall. Most common calibers are .40-65 and .45-70. If you want to shoot long range/Creedmoore you might want a .45-90. Go to some matches, let it be known you need a rifle, you’ll probably find one.

    You might want to take a look at

    Alterfurtz BPCR group;
    http://groups.msn.com/BPCR

    or Shiloh Sharps
    http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/

    or Goex
    http://www.goexpowder.com/phpBB2/index.php

    You might want to get one or more of Croft Barkers books
    http://www.cisternpublishing.org/
    Have mercy.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucks Owin
    FWIW, the club where I shoot steel is NRA and IHMSA "ruled" and I'm not allowed to shoot my .45/70 NEF in silhouette. Gotta have a lever on it!
    But the Rolling blocks don't have a lever. And neither do the trap doors. speaking of trap doors, how do they shoot? Are they competitive?

    Thanks for the thoughts.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    Lars, the nef model buffalo rifle is allowed for bpcr silhouette, but like the trap door you have to mount the long range sights on the wood because there is no tang. Not good for consistant accuracy. I think buck is talking about lever action silhouette. Good luck

  11. #11
    Boolit Master wills's Avatar
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    There is Cowboy Lever Silhouette which uses different rifles. BPCRS uses single shot rifles, pre 1896 design.

    “In brief, these are some of the rules. Rifles are to military or hunting-style cartridge rifles of the era prior to 1896. Maximum rifle weight is 12 pounds, 2 ounces. Rear sights can be of vernier, or the ladder-type typical of the era, and either open or peep. No modern-style receiver, glass, or tube sight is permitted. Stocks and forearms must be of natural wood and in keeping with the designs of the stocks of the era. Measured from the centerline of the bore, drop at heel cannot exceed 2-3/4 inches, drop at toe cannot exceed 7-1/4 inches, drop of comb is not to be higher than 3/4 inch, and the butt shall not be longer than 5-1/4 inches, top to bottom. Cheekpieces, pistol grips and crescent butts are permitted but the latter cannot be deeper than 3/4 inch when measured from a straight line from points of the buttplate. No Schuetzen-style rifles are permitted. Only cast bullets of plain base configuration can be used.”
    http://www.yauponcreek.org/

    See also

    http://www.bpcr.net/
    Last edited by wills; 05-18-2006 at 10:26 PM.
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  12. #12
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    .................Seems to me you could use the .43 Remington Spanish as it's almost an exact duplicate of the Remington 44-77 used at Creedmore in 1874. As I'd posted in another post, Steve Garbe used a 30-40 Krag blown out to 40 cal and called it a 40-60 Maynard in a Sharps, and got away with it. The .43 Egyptian is rather an odd one, and it costs a good bit more then .43 Mauser or .43 Spanish.

    The reason the rules are what they are is to try and eliminate the gamesmen. Witness in SASS you have guys shooting 32 H&R mags loaded pretty weak. They wanted to eliminate all the Martini's, Peabody's, Mausers, et-al and keep it more to those found in the western US in the buffalo era.

    Easiest, cheapest and most pleantifull cartridge is the 45-70, and by extension the 40-65. Probably the easiest original action to get ahold of is the Remington RB as they only made a bazillion of'em and lots have come back since the 1950's. There seem to be 2 issues with them and one is a lack of set triggers. The other is the amount of fall in the stock below the axis of the bore. I also think that the mere mentioning of the name, "Sharps" carries a certain connotaion of accuracy and power.

    .................Buckshot
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    Boolit Master wills's Avatar
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    Last edited by wills; 05-19-2006 at 11:00 AM.
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    Well here it is. Now I just need to wait for it to get here.

    It's one of those Armi sports imports. 1874 style in 45-70 with all the bells and whistles. Double trigger, long range creedmore style sight, checkered walnut stock, patch box and the silver do-dad on the fore end.

    Just what the Dr. ordered for new lube testing apparatice.

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    .............If it's an Armi Sports it's probably the IAB Sharps. My 45-90 Sharps is an IAB and I've had it for many years and have been very happy with it. It's well made, strong, wonderfull case colors, and very accurate. Their history early on was spotty. Most common complaint was soft set triggers. I never had a hiccup with mine. My buddy did with his but it was taken care of very quickly at no cost to him.

    I believe they've taken great strides in the past few years to upgrade the overall product to make it more appealing to the American market. The last couple I've seen have been hard to tell from a Pedersoli of C. Sharps.

    ..............Buckshot
    Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always

    Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner.

    "The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president."

    Shrink the State End the Fed Balance the budget Make a profit Leave an inheritance

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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GC Gas Check