Are Hard Cast Bullets Best

[J&S Bullets]

Hi, I'd like to show every body an article about cast bullet alloys. It talks about whether or not cast bullets have to be as hard as most people make them, and does it hinder performance when they are. http://www.sixguns.com/crew/obturation.htm

[fredj338]

When I started casting I got lino pretty cheap & did most my casting w/ it. It does work well, but really not needed for sub 1000fps loads which is mostly what I shoot. I have found that sized properly & a good lube, you can go w/ a pretty soft bullet to 1200fps+. Much beyond that & I want to start getting the bullet BHN up a bit.

[yondering]

I noticed the article doesn't mention accuracy at all.

In all of my handguns, I've found better accuracy with water dropped ww boolits than with acww or softer, regardless of the load.

If a boolit fits the bore +.001", why does it need to obturate?

[cbrick]

Hi J&S Bullets, welcome to Castboolits.

I see you have discovered the writing of Glen E. Fryxell, if you enjoyed that article you'll love this.

The largest index of Glen E. Fryxell articles on the internet

Rick

[felix]

Boolits do not need to obturate, and they do not need to exceed the "groove" diameter of the leade, when there is no chance for the boolit to undergo any "runout" before and during any rotation. ... felix

[Dale53]

I have enjoyed Glen Fryxell's articles VERY much. His experience pretty much parallels mine.

I use ww's +2% tin for all of my standard velocity (1000 fps and under) with excellent accuracy and good terminal results. I up the antimony from "about" 4% in WW's to 6% when using the bullets over 1000-1200 fps. In my experience accuracy is lost over 1200 fps when too soft a bullet is used.

Using Hollow Point bullets, Glen recommends WW's/pure lead 80%/20% plus the addition of 2% tin to the total weight for excellent expansion at ranges under 100 yards. If you are shooting at .44 Special or .45 Colt velocities, you might even try increasing your pure lead to the equation for good results. Let your accuracy and freedom from leading set your limits in YOUR guns.

FWIW
Dale53

[Lloyd Smale]

a couple years ago i would have been hung out to dry if i would have posted my beleifs that harder bullets outshoot softer ones. In reality, although there are exceptions as some guns have there own mind, if a gun is built to proper dimentions hard will outshoot soft.

[rob45]

Just do what I do- try all of it!

Welcome to the madness.

[BABore]

I've got three different Ruger's in different calibers. A Super BH Hunter in both 41 and 44 mag, and a SRH in 480. During load development for each one, I use both 10 bhn and 22 bhn hardnesses and shoot them side by side. Everytime I try a new boolit design I again try both even if the particular gun has shown a prior preference. Same goes if I should try a different lube. To date, the 41 mag shows a strong preference for the harder booilts no matter what I change. The 44 is just the opposite. It like 10 bhn stuff. The 480 just doesn't care at all. My selection is based entirely on accuracy result starting at 25 yards, then progressing to 50, 100, and 200 for hunting purposes. Many times an accurate 25 or 50 load just falls apart at longer ranges.

Bottom line is I don't follow the normal BS and other peoples opinions. I try it myself, in my guns, and use what works. Period! Your results will vary.

[Frank]

BaBore says

I try it myself, in my guns, and use what works. Period! Your results will vary.

I agree. Harder seems generally better, but you have to test, and also results do vary.

[StarMetal]

I've got three different Ruger's in different calibers. A Super BH Hunter in both 41 and 44 mag, and a SRH in 480. During load development for each one, I use both 10 bhn and 22 bhn hardnesses and shoot them side by side. Everytime I try a new boolit design I again try both even if the particular gun has shown a prior preference. Same goes if I should try a different lube. To date, the 41 mag shows a strong preference for the harder booilts no matter what I change. The 44 is just the opposite. It like 10 bhn stuff. The 480 just doesn't care at all. My selection is based entirely on accuracy result starting at 25 yards, then progressing to 50, 100, and 200 for hunting purposes. Many times an accurate 25 or 50 load just falls apart at longer ranges.

Bottom line is I don't follow the normal BS and other peoples opinions. I try it myself, in my guns, and use what works. Period! Your results will vary.

Amen

Joe

[cbrick]

Going by the title of this thread "Are Hard Cast Bullets Best" I would say no, not as an across the board statement.

DO harder boolits have a place? Of course, if they didn't we would all still be shooting the black powder alloy of lead/tin. I have a problem with the term "hard cast", it denotes that the harder the better which is rarely true. It confuses new shooters of boolits and new casters and is probably the single biggest reason why many of these people simply give up on cast as inaccurate and too much leading. Too much of a good thing is not a good thing.

Before assuming that "hard cast" is best the boolit has to fit "your" firearm. Only then can you test to determine at what BHN range your load in your firearm will give it's best accuracy with the least amount of leading.

My 308 Winchester shoots incredible groups at 200 meters with air cooled WW (12 BHN) at 1900 fps with zero leading. My revolver hates 12 BHN or 20+ BHN but shines with 17-18 BHN at 1550 fps with the same load. Not only is the testing educational and fun (well, for me it is) it is also a great reason to spend more time in the loading room and at the range.

Rick

[Shiloh]

Not necessarily.

I get accurate loads with softer boolits than I used to cast. Part of this was to stretch my limited supply of lino. It works, so I stick with it.

Shiloh

[Maj Dad]

I used to used pure wheel weights for bullets. As I learned over the years, I started adding 50/50 bar solder to the alloy in "eye-ball-park" amounts, and started dropping them into a bucket of cold water with a soft towel in the bottom. All along, I always had good results as far as accuracy, with pistol and rifle loads. Then, Midway started selling linotype, and my wife, unbeknownst to me, bought me a bunch of it for Christmas one year. Now I have all this lead, in varying alloys, and I wonder how to make sense out of it. I know pure lead is heaviest and fills the mold out better than alloys, and bullets too hard can fracture on impact and fail to take the rifling properly, but where is the happy medium? I like to think I am a seasoned caster (been doing it since 1973), if not an expert, but it seems pretty nebulous at times. Is a hardness tester what I am missing? I have looked around and the Cabine Tree tools seem to be pretty good. What say you, gentlemen? Will this reduce my heavy-metal angst and keep me on target?
Thanks, and regards,
Maj Dad

[montana_charlie]

I know pure lead is heaviest and fills the mold out better than alloys,

Well, you're half right.
CM

[Dale53]

Dale53

P.S. Major Dad;
I find a hardness tester VERY helpful. I have the LBT unit and it has done well by me. Today, if I were buying new, I would probably go with the Cabine Tree model since it is more versatile.

At any rate, KNOWING the bullet hardness can be quite helpful.

Having linotype and pure lead is a blessing. You can now have lead that is the hardness of pure lead (about 5 on the scale) to linotype (about 22 on the scale) and any point in between with creative blending. For years my magnum pistol alloy was WW/Linotype (5/1) and I got pretty dern good results as low as 8/1 ww/lino. The real test is in your revolver going for accuracy.

My general pistol alloy is WW+2% tin. The bullets can quite usefully be harder for velocities over 1200 fps.

Here is a really good source of excellent information on a variety of cast bullet problems and solutions:

http://www.lasc.us/ArticlesFryxell.htm

Dale53

[Maj Dad]

Thanks Dale - that is a gold mine. I'll eventually get around to reading all of the articles. One on obturation and expansion left me wondering if another explanation of the hard cast slugs being slower that the softer is that it is harder to push hard bullets down the tube? I accept his findings but still have questons...

Thanks for the subtle suggestion to reexamine my statement CM.

[largom]

I cast some boolits several months ago. The BH was up to 25, I believe. As time went on, they seem to have gotten softer. Now they are 18. Is that unusual to see that kind of age softening?

Don't know about your boolits but the older I get the softer everything on me gets.

[shdwlkr]

You need cast bullets that give you the best results for your use and in your firearms. Now that could be a bhn of 9 or 25 or anywhere in between. Most of my cast bullets are ww lead and what ever bhn I can get from them. I have some that bhn of 21 that are great but again it goes back to what your are shooting them in and at what fps.
Most in days gone by always used Linotype cast bullets but for me they are too hard so I went to ww lead and have been very happy.

[Bullshop Junior]

Hi, I'd like to show every body an article about cast bullet alloys. It talks about whether or not cast bullets have to be as hard as most people make them, and does it hinder performance when they are. http://www.sixguns.com/crew/obturation.htm

Hard boolits have there place, but are not always best.