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Thread: Are there any cons to bevel base bullets?

  1. #41
    Boolit Master


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    Bevel Base bullets cause global warming and holes in the ozone layer. Also, they cause red-headed children. Just say no.

  2. #42
    Boolit Master


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    I have several BB moulds and all are accurate from a varitey of firearms.
    I also have several gas check type bullet moulds that i regulary use without the gas checks installed and get excellent accuracy from a varitey of firearms.

  3. #43
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    BB boolits

    come on everybody knows you will go blind if you shoot BB boolits.

  4. #44
    Boolit Master

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    I lube with a Lyman or RCBS sizer and have found both the problem with lube rings on the basal portion of the boolit to be troublesome. I have also found that flat base wadcutters were slightly more accurate in Target 38 Revolvers. HOWEVER, if somebody gave me a gross or two, I'd have no qualms about shooting them up. I don't buy BB molds, because if I'm going to spend my time casting boolits, I want the best possible result. But if I am just buying blasting boolits, I'll take whatever's cheapest.

    By the by, the references to boat-tailed bullets are bogus. Cast boolits compare to condoms to about the same degree that my wife resembles Scarlett Johansen, which is to say, not very.
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  5. #45
    Boolit Master ole 5 hole group's Avatar
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    Who in the hell is Scarlett Johansen?? and rintinglen, I think you like to live on the edge - good luck with that.

    As to FB, BB - I can shoot both types all around my intended target.

  6. #46
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    When loading for revolvers in which the barrel groove diameter is significantly smaller than the diameter of the cylinder throats, using a bevel-based bullet will reduce forcing cone leading. This is because when a larger diameter bullet, such as .455" loaded in the .45 Colt, transitions from the cylinder and forcing cone into a barrel of much smaller groove diameter, such as .451", typical of many Rugers, a "fin" is dragged off the sharp edge of the base of the bullet. This thinner "fin" section has reduced heat capacity, compared to the surrounding bullet shank, and is easily blasted away and deposited on the walls of the forcing cone.

    Having a bevel gives displaced metal from upset of the bullet base somewhere to flow and mitigates against this finning. This is especially important in higher pressure rounds like heavier .45 Colt "Ruger loads," .45 ACP in autopistols, .357 and .44 Magnums or others which operate at pressures exceeding about 20,000 psi.

    Flatbased bullets may give slightly better accuracy IF they fit the ball seat and origin of rifling EXACTLY and cylinder throats are not more than 0.0005" larger than barrel groove diameter. In extensive test firings using accurized M1911 pistols firing H&G68s of both profiles in typical target loads, the difference between the two was insignificant.

  7. #47
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by ole 5 hole group View Post
    Who in the hell is Scarlett Johansen?? and rintinglen, I think you like to live on the edge - good luck with that.

    As to FB, BB - I can shoot both types all around my intended target.
    OK, sometimes I can neither spell nor type. The lovely young woman's last name is actually JOHANSSON.
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  8. #48
    Boolit Master
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    The problem with these discussions is nobody is mentioning their accuracy standards. To me an accurate handgun will group 1" at 25 yds, a very accurate one 1" at 50 and an extremely accurate 1" at 100 yds. Unless one is using an accurate to very accurate handgun, you really can't say whether or not a bevel base affects accuracy.

    As I'm lazy and prefer to put everything in my favor I use plainbase bullets when working up loads for handguns. I want as much bearing length as possible and a nice flat base to seal the hot gasses. I've never done extensive testing on plainbase vs bevel base.

    I do cast some bb bullets, they are nice for plinking bullets as they are slightly easier to deal with. Another advantage is you don't have to bell the case as much to get them started w/o shaving, and the less you bell and crimp a case the more loadings you'll get before it splits.

  9. #49
    Boolit Man
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    I keep hearing about how the pressure causes the lead or lube to flow. I find cast boolits in the berm all the time that show no such flow occurred and the boolit can be reloaded as is if you don't mind a few rifling marks. I haven't loaded enough to develop an opinion one way or another about BB or FB. Give me another 20 years and I will get back too ya on that.
    lt

  10. #50
    Boolit Master detox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    When loading for revolvers in which the barrel groove diameter is significantly smaller than the diameter of the cylinder throats, using a bevel-based bullet will reduce forcing cone leading. This is because when a larger diameter bullet, such as .455" loaded in the .45 Colt, transitions from the cylinder and forcing cone into a barrel of much smaller groove diameter, such as .451", typical of many Rugers, a "fin" is dragged off the sharp edge of the base of the bullet. This thinner "fin" section has reduced heat capacity, compared to the surrounding bullet shank, and is easily blasted away and deposited on the walls of the forcing cone.

    Having a bevel gives displaced metal from upset of the bullet base somewhere to flow and mitigates against this finning. This is especially important in higher pressure rounds like heavier .45 Colt "Ruger loads," .45 ACP in autopistols, .357 and .44 Magnums or others which operate at pressures exceeding about 20,000 psi.
    I agree.

    Slower burning powders will also help prevent leading in the forcing cone area of some revolvers. For instance Bullseye loaded with flat base boolit will lead more in forcing cone area than say slower Unique loaded with flat base style boolit. Using Bevel base boolit helps even more. This applies to lower velocity (under 1000fps) also.

    I discovered that the sprue plate on my Lyman "bevel" base mould needs to be tighter for perfect bevel base shape with no fins at base.

    Flat base mould is easier to manufacture and cast with.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul h View Post
    The problem with these discussions is nobody is mentioning their accuracy standards. To me an accurate handgun will group 1" at 25 yds, a very accurate one 1" at 50 and an extremely accurate 1" at 100 yds. Unless one is using an accurate to very accurate handgun, you really can't say whether or not a bevel base affects accuracy.

    As I'm lazy and prefer to put everything in my favor I use plainbase bullets when working up loads for handguns. I want as much bearing length as possible and a nice flat base to seal the hot gasses. I've never done extensive testing on plainbase vs bevel base.

    I do cast some bb bullets, they are nice for plinking bullets as they are slightly easier to deal with. Another advantage is you don't have to bell the case as much to get them started w/o shaving, and the less you bell and crimp a case the more loadings you'll get before it splits.
    Paul, you hit the proverbial "Nail on the Head" as some shooters find hitting a pie plate at 10yards to be great accuracy. My standards are a little higher. Maybe not quite as high as yours, the only handguns I've owned that do 1" at 100 yards consistently were Single Shot (Contender, Encore and XP-100).

  12. #52
    Boolit Master ole 5 hole group's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul h View Post
    The problem with these discussions is nobody is mentioning their accuracy standards. To me an accurate handgun will group 1" at 25 yds, a very accurate one 1" at 50 and an extremely accurate 1" at 100 yds. Unless one is using an accurate to very accurate handgun, you really can't say whether or not a bevel base affects accuracy.
    I think you can because there aren't many individuals that can consistently shoot those groups at 50 or 100 yards with an extremely accurate handgun - those short barrel rifles don't count, such as the XP-100's - so if a person can consistently shoot 2" groups at 25 yards with a plain base cast and with the same load but using a beveled base and his groups open to 3", he can say the plain base shoots better with that particular load. At least this is how I would make the determination - but - going up or down with the powder charge or changing powders, you may find your handgun can shoot small groups with either bullet style - just not using the same load.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFrox View Post
    Bevel Base bullets cause global warming and holes in the ozone layer. Also, they cause red-headed children. Just say no.
    I knew it!

  14. #54
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by 357Ruger View Post
    Paul, you hit the proverbial "Nail on the Head" as some shooters find hitting a pie plate at 10yards to be great accuracy. My standards are a little higher. Maybe not quite as high as yours, the only handguns I've owned that do 1" at 100 yards consistently were Single Shot (Contender, Encore and XP-100).
    Why do single shots enter into this. I had all of those that shot pennies at 100, 1" at 200 meters. I still have several left like my 10" MOA that shot 5 shots in 3/8" at 100.
    When you get a revolver down to 1/2" at 100, you need to tell how, I have, many, many times.
    My definition of accuracy is to beat 90% of rifles at any distance. Only a BR rifle is better.

  15. #55
    Boolit Designer 45 2.1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul h View Post
    The problem with these discussions is nobody is mentioning their accuracy standards. To me an accurate handgun will group 1" at 25 yds, a very accurate one 1" at 50 and an extremely accurate 1" at 100 yds. Unless one is using an accurate to very accurate handgun, you really can't say whether or not a bevel base affects accuracy.
    Paul, quite a few years ago you plain based some Magma bevel based pistol molds for me. I tested both versions cast from the same alloy out of the same magnum handgun. The flat base turned out much better in accuracy on each of them, and some of that testing was at extended range and we're not talking target level loads either.
    45 2.1

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  16. #56
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    Hi! My name is Dave and I shoot bevel base boolits.

    I shoot Conventional pistol, This is shot one handed at 50 yds and the X-ring is about one and five eighths inch.

    I will shoot any type boolit/bullet that will give me an advantage.

    Dave C.
    Distinguished, Master,2600 club, President 100 badge holder.

  17. #57
    Boolit Master ole 5 hole group's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave C. View Post
    Hi! My name is Dave and I shoot bevel base boolits.

    I shoot Conventional pistol, This is shot one handed at 50 yds and the X-ring is about one and five eighths inch.

    I will shoot any type boolit/bullet that will give me an advantage.Dave C.
    Ya, and I did a lot of that too and most shooters on the line including myself, didn't keep very many within that X-ring. Most of us were happy to just keep all or most rounds within the 9-ring with a few finding the 10-ring and damn few finding the X-ring.

  18. #58
    Boolit Master in Heavens Range
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44man View Post
    When you get a revolver down to 1/2" at 100, you need to tell how, I have, many, many times.
    My definition of accuracy is to beat 90% of rifles at any distance. Only a BR rifle is better.
    Jim, I like your accuracy standard! However, most of us cannot even begin to approach that goal. Perhaps that is why the majority of us do not even attempt group shooting for real (anymore, anyway). When I was in the competition spirit, I actually tried group shooting with pistols at 50 feet. Both revolters and target pistols. Only by luck could I make all rounds touch . It was far too much stress for my personality type. My BR shooting was poor (by peer comparison) because of my lack of weather interpretation, and that fault still persists to this day. ... felix
    Last edited by felix; 10-22-2013 at 04:29 PM.
    felix

  19. #59
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    I was fortunate when the ruger 480 srh came out, there was very little printed data available so I had to work up loads and I was at the height of my curiosity of what type of accuracy a very good revolver is capable of. To wring out what the gun could do I scoped it, shot from a rest which was nothing more complex than a wood block under the guns frame and a bag filled with rice under the grip. I found 25 yds was too close for load work because groups were one large ragged hole. I did the majority of my load work at 50 yds and found that 5 shot 1" groups were obtained with just about every cast bullet I tried once I found the charge weight the gun liked. And these wern't plinking loads, the mildest was 310 gr @ 1000 fps, most were 400 gr @ 1200 fps, and even the big 460 gr sledgehammer at 1100 fps would do it.

    I even took the gun to the 100yd line to see what it would do and shot a 3 shot 1 1/2" group. I have no doubt with some practice and repeated tries I'd be able to shoot 1" at 100 yds, but I kinda lost interest at that point.

    I've yet to shoot 1" at 50 yds with iron sights, but I've only tried a few times. 2", no problem. Maybe I should make it my goal now that I've gotten my old model 357 fixed up. It doesn't seem to be as accurate as the SRH, but not too far off.

    I don't consider myself an exceptional handgun shot, nor do I fire 1000's of rounds per year. Yeah, when I was working up the 480 loads I was shooting once or twice a week and 50-100 yds per session, but not so much lately.

    I do know some exceptional shots with handguns, like making 75% of your hits on 8" plates at 75 yds, with an iron sighted officers model offhand. Or the guy that could empty a cylinder full of 475 linebaugh loads at a 200yd steel ram offhand with irons, and every shot hit.

  20. #60
    Boolit Master
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    Almost 4 years later, and I still can't see a significant advantage of square-base vs. bevel-base. As far as getting lube on boolit bases more readily in a 450/4500 with the BB, I set my finished sizings base-down on a paper towel after processing, and as I pick them up for seating I give them a little twist against the paper to clean off the bases.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office of the President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts' desire at last and the White House will be adorned with a downright moron."--H.L. Mencken

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check