Cast Boolits For Self Defense?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

If there where no legal issues with using reloads and self defense, would you use your own reloads? Would you use a cast boolit?

With the limited testing I have been able to do with my handguns (phone books, wood, pest control, etc) cast boolits consistently seem to perform right in-between a FMJ and a JHP. I mean cast boolits usually for me expand better then a FMJ and penetrate better then a JHP. Really a cast boolit seems like the best of both worlds. So, my answer to my own questions would be “yes” and “yes.”

[JSnover]

Yes to both questions. There are no legal issues unless you do something illegal with your reloads.

[Bucks Owin]

I'd be careful about the "legal" part. It's not illegal to defend yourself from an armed attacker, no. But I can visualize some lib leaning prosecuter claiming that you intentionally used a handload (of ANY kind) to inflict more "damage" to some poor criminal "victim" before the fact. Intent to grieviously wound or some other such nonsense. Besides, there are some pretty nasty self defense factory loads available to CYA with "legally"...JMO, Dennis

[76 WARLOCK]

I carry cast boolits in my carry gun, there is no evidence that anyone has ever been prosecuted for using reloads.

[deltaenterprizes]

"Legal" issues are not just criminal charges, there is a whole nother ball game after you are cleared in a justifiable homicide in CIVIL court where they take all you have worked for your entire life.
Any case law on that?

[superior]

The standard FBI load is a 158gr+p lead semi wad cutter. After a 9mm failed to penetrate during the infamous FBI shootout in Florida, they no longer use 9mm. In fact after the 9mm failed to penetrate the torso of the perp, ( the bullet went through his arm) he lived long enough to kill 2 more agents. He was finally killed by a .38 that completely penetrated and took out the spine before exiting. So yes, cast boolits can be very effective for defense, however, I wouldn't recommend using your own handloads. You will most like be described as a "Rambo" type. " ladies and gentlemen of the jury", Mr. (insert your name here) wasnt satisfied with todays high-tech ammunition, no..he had to go out into his garage and manufacture "his own KILLER BULLETS"...The proper response would be " The factory ammunition seemed to powerful", but why complicate an already precarious situation?
Just blow them away with a good condom load and be done with it! Remember:
"Better is the enemy of good enough"

[pdawg_shooter]

I will take my chances with my reloads, I can get out of jail, no so sure about getting out of dead!

[EMC45]

I know Massad Ayoob has blathered on and on about this topic. I would use my reloads for sure. In my state there is Castle Doctrine which prevents any repercussions for a shooting that is justified. I am not too worried about it.

[Jim]

I've been told by more than a few instructors AND lawyers that the other guy's attorney will make a big issue of you using a handload in self defense. They capitalize on the fact that you made this ammunition with intent to kill. The fact that it is or is not more lethal than factory loads is irrelevant.
A cat's got two ends and there's more than one way to skin 'im. To start with, if the projectile is a manufactured(JSP, JHP, FMJ, etc.), it has to be proven by a ballistics lab that it WAS a handload. It can be argued that the one round you fired was a factory and the rest are handloads. Then there are reasonable reasons for carrying handloads.
1- "That's what I had in the gun the last time I shot it and just didn't think to switch the loads."
2- "I didn't make it to kill anybody. I've been handloading for years and I haven't bought any factory manufactured ammunition in several years."
3- "I shot the last of my manufactured ammunition a few days before the incident and had not gotten to the store to buy more."

If the other lawyer wants to speculate that you intentionally made the handloads to kill, let him. Your lawyer should object on the grounds of assumption and challenge the other lawyer to prove it. THEY have the burden of proof.

[Recluse]

"Legal" issues are not just criminal charges, there is a whole nother ball game after you are cleared in a justifiable homicide in CIVIL court where they take all you have worked for your entire life.
Any case law on that?

The Castle Doctrine--protects you from civil liability in the ruling that it was a good or clean (ie justifiable) shooting.

[six_gun]

Have you ever tried a shot to the body of anything living and breathing, with a wadcutter. The best way to discribe it is "splash" They won't penetrate very far into a wall but on flesh they really do a job. A jackrabbit simply explodes. Gut shoot a bad guy with one and I don't think he will move farther then the floor.
Sixgun

[Russel Nash]

EMC 45 wrote:

I know Massad Ayoob has blathered on and on about this topic.

Massad Ayoob is nothing more than a paid shill for the gun and ammo manufacturers.

Of course he doesn't want you to use your own reloads and/or cast boolits in a self-defense type shooting. He would rather see that you buy the uber expensive over hyped jacketed hollow points from Federal/Remington/Winchester _____ (insert name of whatever ammo manufacturer who is giving him free ammo schwag for his "testing and evaluation purposes" for whatever the next article is going to write about).

I guess being paid to be an expert witness or to covertly advertise certain manufacturer's products or to sometimes "instruct" classes is more lucrative and more sexy than just being some average-ly experienced cop in some Podunk town near the East Coast.

Massad Ayoob once said that the Smith and Wesson Sigma was like the best gun ever.



So I wouldn't go hanging on to every word and syllable that Mas utters or writes.

[softpoint]

Mas is the only one that has ever brought this up as far as I know. I know of no instances where this was used against anyone. Icarry cast in my .45, 452460, to be exact, over a stout charge of bluedot. Jeff Cooper once stated that a 200 gr. swc in a .45 was one of the best.
Here in Texas, if the defensive shooting is "no billed " by a grand jury, there will be no trial, and there will be no civil action either(there may be a civil suit filed, but if the shooting was dismissed by the grand jury, it won't go to court.) Even the police shootings go to the grand jury for review.
If you have misgivings about carrying your own loads, simple, don't. I have no problem with it here in Texas, anyway. And like the poster said, Recovering from a court issue is far easier than recovering from dead.

[dualsport]

Just my two cents, I use only factory ammo for my home defense loads. I can't see a good enough reason to leave myself open to a law suit when it can so easily be avoided. Slim chance of ever going there, but that's my opinion. If I was sued, maybe I'd prevail, but I'd rather not get sued in the first place. A shooting is bad enough without adding legal **** to it. JMHO

[mike in co]

"Legal" issues are not just criminal charges, there is a whole nother ball game after you are cleared in a justifiable homicide in CIVIL court where they take all you have worked for your entire life.
Any case law on that?

no.......

lots of hot air...no facts from a court decision

[mike in co]

I've been told by more than a few instructors AND lawyers that the other guy's attorney will make a big issue of you using a handload in self defense. They capitalize on the fact that you made this ammunition with intent to kill. The fact that it is or is not more lethal than factory loads is irrelevant.
A cat's got two ends and there's more than one way to skin 'im. To start with, if the projectile is a manufactured(JSP, JHP, FMJ, etc.), it has to be proven by a ballistics lab that it WAS a handload. It can be argued that the one round you fired was a factory and the rest are handloads. Then there are reasonable reasons for carrying handloads.
1- "That's what I had in the gun the last time I shot it and just didn't think to switch the loads."
2- "I didn't make it to kill anybody. I've been handloading for years and I haven't bought any factory manufactured ammunition in several years."
3- "I shot the last of my manufactured ammunition a few days before the incident and had not gotten to the store to buy more."

If the other lawyer wants to speculate that you intentionally made the handloads to kill, let him. Your lawyer should object on the grounds of assumption and challenge the other lawyer to prove it. THEY have the burden of proof.

self defense ....is implied intent to kill......you are in a situtation where your life or that of others is threatened.....one does not shoot to wound...one shoots to kill.

the intent is to stop the threat using deadly force( a loaded gun).......yes you do stop when the threat is eliminated.....but one does not shoot to wound unless one has a very big wallet.

[Echo]

Yes to both. I recommend silly WC's over 2.7 BE for the ladies carrying a .38 belly gun, and have no fear that if she shoots the perp several times in the body, he will lose interest in grabbing whatever he was intent on grabbing. Or she could emulate the Aussie grannie.

And for guys - whatever they are comfortable with, be it another belly gun or slabsides, or anything between or outside. With handloads. With J-word OR cast.

[mike in co]

Just my two cents, I use only factory ammo for my home defense loads. I can't see a good enough reason to leave myself open to a law suit when it can so easily be avoided. Slim chance of ever going there, but that's my opinion. If I was sued, maybe I'd prevail, but I'd rather not get sued in the first place. A shooting is bad enough without adding legal **** to it. JMHO

what make you think they will not sue you for using "sel-defense" ammo.....for using a gun, for not just getting out of his way and letting steal from you....


sorry no substance to your logic..as no one to date has been sued over hand loaded ammo...it is all internet bs.

mike in co

[oldhickory]

I feel very well armed with the right cast boolits, (and a few select swaged boolits as well). The only jacketed handgun loads I have are some Federal Hydro-shocks in 230gr. .45acp flavor...And a few boxes of Black Talons from several years ago.

[GabbyM]

Hand loads is all I use. Don't trust anything made in a factory as much as I do my own bullets.
I'm no armature at loading ammo.