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Thread: Sabot slugs sources and load data

  1. #1
    Boolit Man bearmn56's Avatar
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    Sabot slugs sources and load data

    Ten plus years ago I loaded nearly 100 sabot slugs using components from Ballistic Products, Inc. I bought 100 each 2 3/4" and 3" ACTIV all plastic hulls and 100+ 550 gr sabots that were then sold by BPI. (see attached pic). I found that, as usual, I had to modify the sabot to get good groups. First, I slit the sabot around the slug to be sure it would discard in two pieces. Then I cut the peg off that fit into the base of the slug and pressed it back into the base. This then made the base wad separate from the sabot/slug. These shot wonderfully with 2.5-3.5" groups at 100 yards.
    It can be very cold here in Montana during the hunting season and BPI provided some colder weather data using red dot that, while the velocity was a little lower, there were no bloopers or other problems with the loaded shell in very cold weather. Blue dot is NOT a recommended powder here in cold weather.
    Unfortunately these sabot slugs are no longer available....... and I have shot all of my loads up. So, I am looking for a source of sabot slugs. I have read lots of posts on reloading slugs, but few posters seem to be able to consistently shoot their cast slugs well. Also, I don't see the velocity of the slug loads very often. It might be difficult to catch the speed of a sabot slug over a chronograph as the discarding sabot might wreck the chrono. Has anyone chronoed their loads?
    I would like to cast my own slugs. I am at least somewhat familiar with the Lyman and Lee slugs. However, I have never used them. I tried some cast foster type slugs years ago, but could never get them to shoot.
    I notice that BPI is selling a sabot wad, their BLS-12, for use with jacketed bullets. However, knowing the inside diameter of the sabot would be helpful. One could then find or have made a mould that could cast a heavy lead slug that would fit into the BLS-12 sabot wad.
    In any case, I am looking for a good mould choice with good accurate data or a source of commercial sabots with data. Hopefully, someone can also come up with data that is compatible with my ACTIV hulls, which I still have a quantity of.
    For info, I have a Remington 870 Magnum with a 20" fully rifled barrel. It has a cantaleiver (sp?) weaver rail mounted to the barrel. It has a Weaver Micro-trac 1.5x scope with standard cross hair mounted on the rail.
    So, guys, bring me up to speed,
    Bearmn56
    Montana Territory
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  2. #2
    Boolit Master blaster's Avatar
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    Have you checked the BPI website lately? They seem to have pulled the BSL-12 sabot in the last couple of weeks. You may have seen my other posts and know that I have had good results woth the Lee slug. They have data for the active hulls http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data.../SM%203529.pdf
    Since you are concerned about the effects of extreme cold you might consider (academically of course, since I would never actually reccomend) swapping SR-4756, maybe minus a grain, for No. 5, in the active load. I suggest that because SR-4756 is single base and No. 5 is double and their burn rate is the adjacent (or the same depending on what chart you look at). It is the nitroglycerin in double based powders that is temperature sensitive.

    There is a company called Collet Cup Sabots that sells sabots as components.
    http://members.fortunecity.com/emmyoung/id10.htm
    Last edited by blaster; 11-26-2009 at 04:22 PM.

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    Boolit Master phaessler's Avatar
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    You might want to try googling Lightfield, the slug in the picture looks alot like something they make. "Lightfield", or "Hybred" check their site, www.lightfieldslugs.com. Might save a whole lot of trouble of trying to brew up a new load.
    The BPI sabot, BLS-12, as I have been told by their marketing team, is in a state a revamp. They wont say wether its resized for a .45cal bullet, or its still a .50. But they have stopped selling them until they feel it can be released, its being "tested" as they say. The data file is weak to say the least, and I am personally afraid to jump on that boat, investing the time, powder and primers, only to have it totally change when its rereleased.
    There is a company also in NJ, that PeterNap pointed me to, CCS. But the price of the sabots scared me away 100/ $70.00, plus I could open their catalog. I guess my Word version is to old. They are at:
    GUN SERVICING, LLC
    101 GILBERT ROAD
    BORDENTOWN, NJ 08505
    609-261-7373

    I have been doing alot of slug shooting as of late, and honestly I want to chrony the loads, but need to fab up a shield for the chrony, lost one last year to a wad hit, was thinking a 1" plywood 12X12"window to shoot thru for the chrony's safety.
    Just my 0.02, Good luck.

    Pete
    Last edited by phaessler; 11-26-2009 at 04:03 PM. Reason: spelling

  4. #4
    Boolit Master phaessler's Avatar
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    Quick note, my Mossberg actually prefers Lyman slug loads in 2 3/4" ACTIV hulls, I used to pick them up by 1000's many years ago, still have wads for shot loads too.
    Am I old?

    Pete

  5. #5
    Boolit Master phaessler's Avatar
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    CCS price list......

    Found the CCS price list:


    GUN SERVICING, LLC
    COLLET CUP SABOT SLUGS PRICE LIST
    THESE PRICES ARE FOR MAIL ORDERS ONLY

    12GA. 2&3/4” MAGNUMS $13.49 PER PACK OF 5 {.300GR. XTP}

    12GA. 2&3/4” SUPER MAGS $14.49 PER PACK OF 5 {.300GR. XTP}

    12GA. 2&3/4” 50 CAL. IMPROVED $15.49 PER PACK OF 5 {Barnes MZ Expander}

    12GA. 2&3/4” 50 CAL. 1900+ $18.99 PER PACK OF 5 {Barnes MZ Expander}

    12GA. 3” MAGNUMS $14.49 PER PACK OF 5 {.300GR. XTP}

    20GA. 2&3/4” MAGNUMS $13.49 PER PACK OF 5 {.300GR. XTP}

    20GA. 2&3/4” MAGNUMS $13.99 PER PACK OF 5 {.250GR. XTP}

    20GA. 3” MAGNUMS $14.49 PER PACK OF 5 {.300GR. XTP}

    20GA. 3” MAGNUMS $14.49 PER PACK OF 5 {.250GR. XTP}

    100 SABOTS ONLY $70.00 + SHIPPING AND HANDLING

    CCS GAS SEALS $0.10 EACH {12GA & 20GA}

    RELOADING MANUAL $2.95 EACH {FREE WITH SABOT ORDER}

    SHPPING AND HANDLING CHARGES USUALLY RUN AS FOLLOWS:

    1 PACK UP TO 4 PACKS $9.75
    5 PACKS UP TO 10 PACKS $12.75 -? ( depends on locations)

    ALSO, PLEASE NOTE THESE SHIPPING CHARGES ARE JUST ESTIMATES AND ACTUAL COST WILL DEPEND ON UPS.

    THERE IS ALSO A $10.00 CHARGE FOR COD ORDERS FROM UPS. CASE LOTS CAN BE SHIPPED BUT WILL NATURALLY COST MORE FOR SHIPPING AND HANDLING.

    COLLET CUP SABOT SLUGS ARE MANUFACTORED BY:

    GUN SERVICING, LLC
    101 GILBERT ROAD
    BORDENTOWN, NJ 08505
    609-261-7373

    DEALER INQUIRIES: COPY OF FFL NEEDED FOR PRICE LIST

    ALSO, ALL PERSONAL CHECKS MUST CLEAR BEFORE ORDER IS SHIPPED.

    THESE PRICES EFFECTIVE AS OF October 10, 2009. PRICES SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    You might want to try googling Lightfield, the slug in the picture looks alot like something they make. "Lightfield", or "Hybred" check their site
    I thought so too....and I thought I remembered these slugs being sold by Midway.

    Would these be of interest?
    http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=158096

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Ive had good luck with the lyman sabot slug. I use Trap hulls (Fed Win Fiocchi) Field or trap wads ( 1 1/4 1 1/8 ) Med speed powders (Herco Green Dot)

  8. #8
    bearmn56, I think I know what your looking for. You want a load it yourself, and preferably cast it yourself slug that's a sabot and hits hard and accurate from about zero to 125-ish range. Velocity and flat shooting isn't as important as reliability and accuracy.

    That about sum it up?

    Problem is actually pulling that off --- especially when you have a bunch of component producers and wholesalers that are stuck on speed and velocity when it comes to sabot slugs and forgot all about reliability, accuracy, and effective knock down capabilities. I've done a little bit of experimentation with the sabot variety of the roll your own slugs and so has my man, who posts under the screen name of turbo1889 on this forum and others. So let me basically lay out your options. First you have the various "slug in a shot-wad" combinations out there for the 12ga.. The two Lee molds the Lyman mold and a few other obscure offerings such as the Rapine mold. For higher velocity hunting loads the Lyman is generally considered most desirable and the for low velocity, low recoil "three gun competition" type loads and plinking the Lee molds are considered most desirable. Then there are the various non-discarding pressure wad sabots all of which are basically the same or very similar design. Hastings & Lightfield and other obscure offerings that are copy cats. Those all work pretty well and definitely fill the main three necessities --- reliability, accuracy, and effective knock down capabilities. Unfortunately there price can be a little stiff --- running anywhere from $0.50 to slightly over $1.00 each per the actual slugs only plus shipping and as the name suggests "non-discarding" means the whole package goes all the way to the target so you don't really gain any improvements in down range ballistics compared to full bore slugs. Then there is the Gualandi "Blue" Sabot sold under a variety of names. Basically it's half way between a true sabot and non-discarding pressure wad sabot. There are plastic petals around the main metal head of the slug that do break off and discard but the tail section is attached to the slug and stays with it all the way to the target. Once again like the non-discarding ones the Gualandi "Blue" Sabots work pretty well and definitely fill the main three necessities --- reliability, accuracy, and effective knock down capabilities. Unfortunately there price can be a little stiff as well - running both slightly under and over $1.00 each per the actual slugs only plus shipping. There are improvements in down range ballistics compared to full bore slugs or the non-discarding sabots but there are minimal. Sounds like this slug most closely matches the original configuration of your 10+ year old ones.

    Then we get into the "true sabots" basically right now on the market you have two options. Buy them from CCS at $0.70 a pop plus shipping and handling for the sabot alone, or hope BPI gets their act together and puts out a sabot worth a &#^$%& without jacking the price up too much from where the old ones were at about $0.25 a pop. The old version of the BPI sabots had two main flaws. First, they had a worthless cushion section on the bottom --- that was easily fixed by cutting it off and putting your own gas seal and cushion section in instead --- a good 1/4" thick, hard, high-quality nitro card directly under the forward section of the BPI sabot with the petals that held the bullet worked just fine. Second, they were undersized and using a standard 50-cal pistol bullet with a diameter ranging from 0.500" to 0.502" that was suggested didn't work worth a &@%$^& and you had to step up to the other fifty cal. bullets that ran 0.510" to 0.512" and then life was good. Of course by then you had to work up your own loads because of all the alterations that were necessarily made.

    There is a third option that my man has experimented with that I simply don't have the patience for. Basically you get some rolls of that old industrial brown paper packing tape. The stuff that is made out of nothing more then recycled brown paper like grocery bags and has a glue coating on one side that needs to be wetted just like a stamp for sending letters in the mail. Then you get a 1/2" wood dowel and roll it on some sand paper until it measures about 0.48" with calipers and then figure out how long of a paper strip it takes to make it so that when your roll up on itself nice and tight on the dowel rod the outside diameter of the roll comes out at about 0.73" with calipers. Then you cut a whole bunch of strips that long and wet the back side except for about the last 3/4 of an inch on one end. You then take that end with the little bit of dry section on it and start rolling it up on the dowel from that end. So when you got a whole bunch of those little tubes made and they are partially dry but not all the way dry you slip them back on to the dowel and then use a razor knife to cut them the right length for your 50-cal pistol bullets plus about a 1/8"+. If I remember right he was cutting them in half. Then you take some 1/8" thick 50-cal nitro cards and glue them inside one end of the little tubes flush with the end and then you take some 12ga. 1/4" thick nitro-cards and glue them on to the end that you just glued the 50-cal nitro cards into. Then when they completely dries you put them over the end of the dowel one at a time and cut the petal slits in them with a razor knife starting from the base/bottom/plugged end about 1/4" down the tube section from it's joint with the 12ga. nitro card. Then you put your 0.500" to 0.502" bullets inside them and load them up. Those do work, and they work very, very well from my experience with them but I only did a little bit of loading with them because he about bit my head off when he found out I had been raiding his stash of them. Which is understandable considering how much work is involved in making them by hand one at a time, which I did not understand myself until I made replacement for him for the ones I had used under his "standing over you while you try to work" direction and very forceful demands to word it in a very politically correct way. I believe potential domestic disturbance at the brink of the boiling point would be the less PC and more accurate description of that incident, and I can't deny I was the main party at fault.

  9. #9
    Boolit Man bearmn56's Avatar
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    Sabot slugs and more

    Thanks to all....especially Tommygirl,
    I can see why there is such a push to make one's own slugs...whether they be sabots or some other type. The commercially available slugs/sabots as components are damned expensive....Working up a good load could cost $100.00 or more. The commercial sabot ammo can run as much as $3.00 per round.
    Things have really gone up the last couple of years. I am an avid prairie dog shooter...shooting 2000+ rounds of center fire stuff/year. If I didn't reload.....well, just say that this amount of shooting would be out of the question.
    Tommygirl, I really liked your full summary of my options....Now I have to decide what I want to do.... I like the idea of casting my own sabot slug...either the Lyman or the Lee, and using a cheap wad and going to work. Fortunately, I have lots of lead to play with.......thanks to a good friend who is a retired telephone company engineer. He was able to acquire lots of lead sheathing from telephone cables...It is near dead soft lead. Here is where I would like additional info.....The Lee "drive key" mould is intriguing. How fast can the 1oz version be pushed and still get good results? It seems that many posters like the Lyman more than the Lee....Why? As I noted in the post that started this thread, does anyone have a load(s) that is for cold (as in around zero deg farenheight)? Using powders that are fast to medium fast.
    Incidentally, I found a small cache of Brenneke "gold" slugs in my shop....I shot them at 100yds...and found that they would shoot nice even 6" groups. Again, their cost is pretty steep if I shoot very many...I only had 10...these are now gone too...replaceing them seems to be $2.00+/round.
    I like handloading challenges.........So, give me more info on the Lee drive key slug and the Lyman as well...........
    Gosh I like this site.....
    Bearmn 56
    Montana Territory

  10. #10
    Boolit Master blaster's Avatar
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    I'm woundering why you want to use fast to meduim powders? Presuming you have a good reason you could try either the lyman or lee slug with shot data for the same amount of weight. You will not get top end perfromance. Any unique load would be a good start as it is known to be temperature insensitive as far as double base powders go.
    They can take my guns when they get past my IED's.

  11. #11
    Boolit Man bearmn56's Avatar
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    Why medium to fast shotgun powders

    Blaster,
    Most, but not all, of the fast to medium fast shotgun powders are less sensitive to real cold weather....as compared to blue dot and similar powders. I understand that single based powders are less sensitive to cold than double based powders.
    In any case, a shotgun slug is good to about 150 yards max. Yeah, I know some people are claiming 165-175 yards with some of the sabot designs. My own experience with the shot gun slug's rainbow trajectory is probably closer to 100yards. Furthermore, where I hunt (even Montana has hunting areas where shotguns, muzzle loaders and "traditional handguns" are required)with a shotgun, 98% of all shots are 100 yds or less.
    Even at 1300fps muzzle velocity a 500+ grain slug..of any type...with it's flat (er) nose and huge frontal area has plenty of killing power for deer.
    The reason that I would like to use these powders is to provide a more consistent muzzle velocity over the full specturm of temperatures as found here during the hunting season. Even if my handloads, using the faster powders, are slower than most commercial slugs at 50-70 degrees farenheight, they should still have a much lower loss of velocity in much colder temperatures. My experience with some of the commercial slugs has been a noticeably reduced muzzle velocity (as measured by noticeably lower recoil) with a lower point of impact...sometimes accompanied with a huge muzzle flash.
    Anyway........lots of words to explain my reasoning......
    Bearmn56
    Montana Territory

  12. #12
    Boolit Master blaster's Avatar
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    Seems like a good enough reason to me. I've heard of people that run their cast sabot slugs a trap to reduced recoil trap velocities. I've loaded the lee slug with 1oz shot data and it did ok. I was messing around reduced to very reduced loads. In my gun it was clearing the barrel with suprising speed with as little as 6.5gr. of clays.

    You ought to give the Lee slug a try at light field velocities/loads. It seems to be about what you are looking for.

    At 1300fps you could have decent dead on hold of +/-3.5" out to 120yd with a 100yd zero.
    They can take my guns when they get past my IED's.

  13. #13
    Continuing from where I left of last time, bearmn56.

    You specifically asked about sabot slugs so I listed only the sabot types. For the ranges you’re talking about (0-125) you shouldn't completely discount full bore slugs. The advantage to full bore slugs being that you don't have to do very much fiddling with them to get them to shoot accurately. The Lyman 0.735" round ball mold offers superb accuracy when cast of a medium hardness alloy (anything from WW and pure lead mixed 50/50 to WW and type-metal mixed 50/50), tumble lubed, and fired out of a rifled bore slug gun. The harder alloy versions are over-kill for deer. Softest possible alloy that won't strip in the rifling is what should be used for deer --- usually that's about the 50/50 WW/pure. That ball is 0.005" oversize which easily squeezes down in a full rifled slug gun barrel to make a flat band around the equator of the ball that grabs the rifling. Best practice is to aim "high in the withers" on game with full bore RB loads, a round ball works best when placed against bone. Then there are the two molds from Rapine that are full bore designs, also having reputations for being exceptionally accurate with minimal "fiddling". Don't even consider the Lyman foster slug mold --- its 0.015" under bore size and is a rattle down the bore affair. Then there are the copper jacketed aluminum core "giant pistol bullets" that are good in lead free zones that are sold by NwCP (North-west Custom Projectiles) they aren’t cheap but if you want to shotgun slug hunt in a "no-lead allowed" zone and still roll your own they are definitely worth considering. Then there are the various attached base-wad slugs --- offerings from Gualandi and the AQ slug mainly. If you want to get really serious you could have a custom mold cut for a full bore slug, solid slugs that look like giant pistol bullets complete with lube grooves and very heavily constructed fosters with big flat noses and thick strong skirts seem to be the name of the game in that department.

    But you’re probably right, for most casters who want to load shotgun slugs the Lyman or Lee mold is probably the first choice. I'd throw the Lyman 0.735" round ball in that mix as well. It has a surprisingly high BC about 0.103-0.104 compared to the Lyman and Lee slugs which are in the 0.07 to 0.08 range that is a noticeable improvement and it is darn easy to load. You asked why a lot of people prefer the Lyman wad-slug to the Lee wad-slug for hunting purposes. Simply put, the Lyman is more accurate at higher velocities and the Lee is more accurate at lower velocities. This is a direct result of each of the slugs’ individual shapes and aerodynamic principles. Secondly, the Lyman slug with its big flat nose and greater weight has more "smack-down" then the Lee. More smack-down plus usually better accuracy at the higher velocity levels of magnum hunting rounds is what wins it so many followers compared to the Lee. With either one of the two slugs there is a strong trend that my personal experience backs up for using the Federal brand name wads. Also loads can usually be improved with the Lyman by putting a sub-gauge nitro card in the wad under the slug and/or filling the base with light weight filler materials (all different types are used from various glues and epoxies to simple shot buffer). Also, for you desire to for good cold weather performance. I strongly suggest the use of Fed. 209A primers in all your loads and suggest WSF and Steel as two good cold weather powders.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master blaster's Avatar
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    tommygirl,
    That intersts me that you think (or know?) that a .735 round ball would have a better BC than a .690 skirted slug. I always figured the lee slug to have a .10-.11 range BC and the Lyman to be more in the .07-.08 range you discribed. I've never been able to find formulas for the transition between the angles on the lyman slugs so I never knew exactly what bc it it had. If you know how to figure that I would be very interested. On the lee slug I always figured that it was the same as a round nose minus a little for the additional drag added by the elongated skirt. I'd be interested to see where you get your data. I always thought that sphereical was one of the more inefficient projectile designs since a large diameter, for a given weight, is forced through the air.
    Last edited by blaster; 11-28-2009 at 12:50 AM. Reason: sp
    They can take my guns when they get past my IED's.

  15. #15
    Blaster, that complex, emotionally charged, and controversial of an issue demands a whole new thread. I know the BC for any size round ball you wish to shoot from a 17-cal BB in a red-rider BB gun to a cannon ball bigger around then your head. The British navy came up with a formula for calculating that long, long, long ago and every RB BC chart I've come across matches that formula tick for tack within a very small margin of error. The BC of all three of the Lyman slugs (foster 12ga., wad-slug 12ga., foster 20ga., & wad-slug 20ga.) can be reverse engineered with a very small error via. the Velocity and Energy vs. Range chart for these slugs on page 106 of their Lyman Shotshell Reloading Handbook 5th Edition; basically you plug the weight and muzzle velocity of the slug into an external ballistic calculator and then fiddle with the BC until the output values match the charts.

    On the Lee slug --- I'll admit you have me there and it's a think not a know. But let's just put it this way. The general BC for most factory loaded 1-oz. 12ga. round nose foster slugs can be generally summed up as being "Approx. 0.07 or Slightly Less" again that's from reverse engineering the velocity and drop charts and info put forth by the manufactures. The Lee slug might have slightly better numbers due to the fact that its 1-oz weight is packed into a slightly smaller diameter delivery package. I would be very surprised, however, if it broke above the 0.09 mark for sure.

    The supposed "fact" that the round ball is the most inefficient projectile possible with the lowest BC and lowest sectional density is a false hood --- an old wives tale perpetrated both by innocent repeat-o robots, semi-innocent generalizers that shrug off inaccuracies as footnotes at best, sheep-o-ls who don't bother to check the math or don't know how to do the math, and last but not least bold face liars who will argue will solid mathematics that are un-debatable unless you choose to throw math, science, and physics out the window and also argue that the sun revolves around the earth.

    The fact is that deep hollow base and deep hollow point projectiles often have both BC values and sectional densities which are significantly less then the lowly round ball. There are indeed projectiles that are far less efficient then the round-ball and the foster style shotgun slug is one of the best examples possible.

    I will do some fact digging on the Lee slug and then I'll start a new thread on this subject in this section of the forum to more fully explain --- and, yes, I will include the math and I'll try to keep it at a high school algebra level.
    Last edited by tommygirlMT; 11-28-2009 at 01:47 AM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master blaster's Avatar
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    Good luck keeping it algebreic. Trying to figure out the interface of two angles as in the lyman slug exausted every bit of calculis, physics and trig I know and managed to get "I don't know, but I think I know a guy who might" out of 2 doctors of mathmatics granted they were theroetical and not applied mathematics (nasa never returned my emails). Maybe an answer doesn't exsist and ignoring it is the most efficient solution or maybe it can only be determined through some sort of empirical testing.

    As far as round balls they aren't the most innefficient by any means and are in fact the most efficient as a sum of every angle. Once the there is a capability to control the orientation of the object through centrifical force it seems that round balls loose out to almost any semi-streamlined elongated projectile, however. For example a round ball has a lower drag coefficient than a half a round ball from every angle except when the flat side of the half round ball is parrell to the direction of motion.

    If I remember right from when I was really interested for a while, nasa has some good information on drag coefficients in a disrupted meduim of known mass density you might try starting there.

    I would genuinely like to hear what you come up with. Especially on a complex object like the lyman slug or even a definive way to interface the drag coefficients of two different simple shapes like the half sphere nose of the lee slug and the short cyllindrical skirt.
    They can take my guns when they get past my IED's.

  17. #17
    Boolit Man bearmn56's Avatar
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    Slug loads in ACTIV hulls

    As I noted in the first post in this thread, I have a quantity of ACTIV hulls....both 2 3/4" and 3". I would like to use these up first. They also seem to work exceptionally well using a roll crimp. Maybe the question I should be asking is this: What shotshell hull(S) have the same internal capacity as the ACTIV? Theoretically, I should be able to use load data for the similar hull and achieve similar results and use up the ACTIV hulls.
    Also, thanks Blaster and Tommygirl for your technical explanations....I am a retired "techie type" and like to see the theory and numbers behind my choices.
    I will have to get out AFTER all of the hoopala around Black Friday....don't want to get trampled........, and find some Fed 209A and the WSF and Steel. I have a quantity of Longshot that I use for handgun loads in my Taurus .44 Mag snubbie........(200gr Gold Dots @ 1150fps in 2"barrel). Although a little slower, this might be a powder to explore. One other thing...this is for you Tommygirl......I notice that you and others have recommended harder alloys in casting slugs.......Is this primarily intended to reduce distortion at setback when the slug is fired? ......allowing the slug to maintain its shape better and offer a more consistent ballistic shape on the way to the target?
    Bearmn56
    Montana Territory

  18. #18
    I can't really help you with the ACTIV hulls I've never loaded one. Generally I load Cheddita, Fiocchi, and Federal hulls. I especially like the paper hulls either the paper base plastic tube ones from Federal or the really nice completely paper ones from Fiocchi.


    As far as casting slugs from hard alloy goes --- I recommend that for slugs that have at least a 50% diameter flat on the nose. For slugs that are basically round nose or round balls --- for soft targets such as deer, medium soft alloy is better. The reasoning behind this is pretty simple. Let’s take the Lyman wad-slug for example. It’s 68-cal. with a flat on the nose that's about 50-cal. Even completely mushroomed a 30-cal rifle bullet still isn't going to cut as big a hole through whatever your shooting then that slug even if it doesn't expand or mushroom one little bit. Harder alloy is easier and cheaper to obtain (WW), is less subject to distortion during firing, cuts through bone and tough grisly tissue better, and if it's a full bore slug doesn't lead the barrel anything compared to soft pure lead. Basically, the answer to your question in this area is, “Yes, but that’s not the only reason to use a harder alloy.”

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Bullshop Junior's Avatar
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    Lyman Publishes a book with shotgun load data.
    I have a copy I will sell. I don't have a shotgun any more, and don't plan on getting another one.
    I made all my slugs out of pure lead.
    "Never argue with someone dumber then you" - Mark Twain

    There is no such thing as a smaller hammer

    Стрелок пули бросания

    BIC/Daniel


  20. #20
    Boolit Man RaymondMillbrae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    110
    BearMN56,

    I am also in the very same position as you. I am also looking at casting Lyman 525-grain sabot slugs as well.

    I am totally new to this site, and I have started another thread on this forum regarding the latter-mentioned topic. (CLICK HERE to see the thread).

    I load Lyman sabot slugs on a progressive press (see my below tutorials), but am committed to casting them myself from now on.

    If you are interested in purchasing them, CLICK HERE to check out a website I found.

    I am committed to casting them for the following reasons:


    1) If I purchase them from the latter website link I posted above, I would be paying $140.00 for 400-rounds, shipped to my door. But let's say I purchased a 25-pound bag of chilled or magnum shot - it would cost me $35.00, and I could cast approximately 330-rounds. So work it out: $140.00 for 400 purchased slugs...or $35.00 for 330 slugs, self-cast, and using cleaned lead. Or you can go even more ghetto (or frugal) and find your lead for free in different places.

    2) Personally, I am using these Lyman slugs for 3-gunning (Remmy 870P, 18" inch smooth bore), and am getting good accuracy. I experimented with them by reducing the powder charge to make them more "low recoil"...but failed miserably. The load data specified 26-grains of Universal Clays @1328 FPS. But I reduced them to 25-grains, and then 24-grains, and the point of aim/point of impact suffered greatly. The slower velocities gave the slug too much "barrel time," which in turn caused the slug to be caught in the barrel flip...which caused the round to shoot up to 9" inches high at 50-yards.

    Blah.

    Bottom line, the Lyman 525-grain sabot slugs need to be shot "hot" in order to keep their accuracy.


    Anyhoo...I hope that helped.

    In Christ: Raymond

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check