Fire-form 8x56 Hungarian to 8x58RD Svenska Remingtongevär

[Dutchman]

5 rds Hungarian 8x56mm neck sized in a 8x58R Danish die. Loaded with 15 grs Unique and case filled with COW then slightly compressed and sealed with carpenter's glue.



Bertram 8x58RD are known to be .020" small in the body diameter. I have only 20 rds so these were loaded the same and fire formed.



Two of 5 Bertram split in the body.



None of the 10 rds of Privy Partisan 8x56 Hungarian split. The rim on these is under-diameter and can easily slip over the extractor. I forgot the scotch tape to put around the head to centralize the case in the chamber but it seemed to make little difference. I also forgot (!) the oil for the cases so they'd back up to the breechblock instead of obturating. Necks need a 2nd fire forming and I may load a cast load using SR4759 as I've loaded that powder in the rolling block before so I have a point of reference for the load level to get good case obturation. Then again, I may just fire form a 2nd time using oil on the case and see whatfer. I have 50 pcs of this brass to experiment with.



Carl Gustaf mfg 1872 m/1889 custom stocked with native Ohio fiddleback walnut by a friend of mine in Ohio. Marbles tang sight. Produces 10 shots/one hole @ 50 yds with Lyman 165 gr .324" Loverin 10.5 grs Unique (ok so its a weenie load). I got 2 new Marbles front barrel sights with 1/16" ivory bead that I have to install on both my RB. Both RB will also get new trigger springs to reduce the trigger pull. I'd like to have some checkering done on the side panels of the wrist and the forearm. That would really improve this rifle's feel and looks.



that is all
Dutch

[1874Sharps]

Dutchman,

You have a very nice looking RB, there. The fireforming of cases is interesting, too, but I must think that cases specifically for your rifle's caliber must be available from somewhere such as Buffalo Arms. That might be a bit easier than fireforming cases.

[Dutchman]

Buffalo Arms reformed .45-70 cases into 8x58RD are very brittle from the drawing out process. They are also very costly. I've purchased about 100 rds from them in 9 years. Even with annealing they start to disintegrate after 3-4 reloadings.

There are woefully few donor cases that will work for the 8x58RD. The .45-90 is one but some reports say the head area is too weak and they fail way too soon. The old "basic" 45 case will work but I've not looked into whether they're still manufactured or the cost. I do have 20 pieces of old B.E.L.L. basic 45 I may play with. Believe me, I've been through the books on this issue. Even the venerable .348 Winchester is about .040" too large in the head diameter. That's a lot of material to swage with multiple swage dies.

This is why so many of this model rolling block are simply rebarreled. I'd bet gold bars there's a couple lakes in Montana full of take-off 8x58RD barrels. I bought one from John King in Montana many years ago. Empty case cost and die cost scare some shooters away from this rifle. There is no factory ammo and the custom loaded ammo from Buffalo Arms isn't for the rolling block its for the Danish Krag.

Those of you who shoot straight wall cases are spoiled .

[leftiye]

Instead of swaging the heads of the .348s down, size them as far towards the head as you can, then turn off the .020" per side on a lathe (even a unimat will do). Montana Charlie might could help you draw your own 45-70s.

[Cheshire Dave]

"that will work for the 8x58RD. The .45-90 is one but some reports say the head area is too weak and they fail way too soon. "


Have you tried Starline 45-90 cases? I would think that they have the same internal dimenions as their 45-70 cases. I've heard nothing but good things about Starline..You have a beautiful rifle and a cool project.

[Griffin]

A friend of mine has an old 8x58 RD rifle and has asked me for help producing some brass for him.
Could you guys please give me a short intro on how to do this the "best" way.
i got old 45/70 cases and new starline in the garage to start from.
best regards Karl

[jhrosier]

I've had good results fireforming the 5x56 to 8x58.
I use a couple wraps of 1/8" wide quilters' tape in front of the rim to center the cases for the first loading.
This has worked out well and also holds the head against the breech.
The cases always seem to need two firings to fully form.
This is with reasonable (low pressure) cast boolit loads.
My Swedish RB seems to have a very generously sized throat and works best for me with a very hard boolit.

Jack

[leadman]

I have some 45-70 brass that I got with my RB that was already formed. This brass is shootable but the neck is about 1/8" to 1/4" too short.
I bought some of the Buffalo Arms reformed and stretched brass from a member here and so far it is working good. It is pricey to buy but alot less work than reforming brass.
The 8X56R brass that the Dutchman fireformed has been out of stock every place I looked.
C&H does make a nice set of dies for these but they are out of stock until March I beleive. I bought my C&H dies from Buffalo Arms, fast service.
I do have some 45-70 I may try to reform soon starting out with the 40-65 dies I think. I'll post when I do this.

[MOA]

Prepping to fire-form for the Swedish Rolling Block 1867 Carl Gustav in 8x58R Danish with 8x56R Hungarian from Priv.

The brass.




Unique powder 12 grains under the cream of wheat filler.


Adding the Titebond carpenter glue after a lite packing of the filler with a small headed screw driver.


100 cases with glue drying overnight to be packed into boxes for the firing next week.

[17nut]

The Swedish RB was designed for the long 227grain round nose bullet, thus the long leade (½"+)



I have found the 8mm MAX for the 8x57 to shoot extremly well in the old RB's




If you want to jump the hoops cases can be made from belted magnum cases with next to no cull rate.

[vagrantviking]

I formed some cases from 45-70 brass and can probably live with them being short but do realize it might make finding an accurate load more difficult.

The first round of experiments I have done were with Lee 8mm 210gr cast and black powder weren't very encouraging so want to try some light smokeless loads with unique, 800x or Trailboss.

Can anyone suggest a source for data?

[Boz330]

Mine shot very well with the 8MM Max and 4759. Of course that powder is no longer in production but if you can find enough it works well.
I got cases from Buffalo Arms and really didn't have any problems with them but they were pricey. Tried BP once but the fouling was so bad I tossed that idea.

Bob

[leadman]

I use 12grs of Unique with the Lyman 160gr Loverin bullet. This bullet has long parallel sides to help fill the throat. Your Lee should work also just load it as close to the rifling as you can. I would start at 10grs and work up one grain at a time.